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#229756 - 08/12/11 04:02 PM Edmonton cops vow crackdown on knives
Nato7 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/28/06
Posts: 28
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Afternoon Doug,

I think we are going to need your help with this one:

Edmonton Police Vow Crackdown on Knives

Preferably, before someone develops the $25 billion dollar knife registery program.
_________________________
They will swing back to the belief that they can make people...better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave.

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#229757 - 08/12/11 04:14 PM Re: Edmonton cops vow crackdown on knives [Re: Nato7]
7point82 Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Oklahoma
"What I can say with certainty is ... individuals who walk the streets of Edmonton with these types of weapon, with any edged weapons, we're looking at laying charges and looking at multiple charges," Preston said.

The voice of reason. sick
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"There is not a man of us who does not at times need a helping hand to be stretched out to him, and then shame upon him who will not stretch out the helping hand to his brother." -Theodore Roosevelt

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#229759 - 08/12/11 04:20 PM Re: Edmonton cops vow crackdown on knives [Re: Nato7]
Nato7 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/28/06
Posts: 28
Loc: Ontario, Canada
What I'm concerned about is the general population assuming Preston and his cohorts are the voice of reason.
_________________________
They will swing back to the belief that they can make people...better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave.

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#229765 - 08/12/11 04:51 PM Re: Edmonton cops vow crackdown on knives [Re: Nato7]
7point82 Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Oklahoma
The comments below the story are great...

I went to Edmonton on business a few months ago, and carried my assisted-opening Kershaw... it's my every-day carry knife. While there, I experienced no desire to stab or slice anyone. Just the same, I didn't realize I was part of the problem. Sorry, Edmonton. [/sarc]

Coming up on the 6 o'clock news: Edmonton cops vow to crack down on big biceps!
In this day and ages, nobody needs big biceps... every body knows that powerful arms are a fight waiting to happen...
_________________________
"There is not a man of us who does not at times need a helping hand to be stretched out to him, and then shame upon him who will not stretch out the helping hand to his brother." -Theodore Roosevelt

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#229766 - 08/12/11 04:52 PM Re: Edmonton cops vow crackdown on knives [Re: Nato7]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1628
Loc: Northern California
Let's not forget the fatal shooting of woodcarver John T. Williams by Seattle police.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeGcCGeHuIg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbyKPeq_-14&feature=related

Police do not need more incentive to terrorize the public.
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If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#229770 - 08/12/11 06:23 PM Re: Edmonton cops vow crackdown on knives [Re: Nato7]
Andy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 378
Loc: SE PA
What's next, hockey sticks?

Oh, wait... it's Canada!

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#229774 - 08/12/11 07:07 PM Re: Edmonton cops vow crackdown on knives [Re: Nato7]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Politicians and bureaucrats: kings of the knee-jerk reaction. And the first thing they think to do is remove the weapons from the law-abiding people because it's the easiest. 'Tis a pity they don't start with the criminals, first.

Guns first, then knives, then...
Baseball bats (sorry, USA)
Hockey sticks (sorry, Canada)
Pointed sticks (naturally pointed or formed)
Building lumber like 2x4s
Loose cement could be tossed into people's eyes
Glass, broken, very sharp
Rope for choking
Duct tape for suffocation
Lengths of metal like fireplace pokers, rebar and pipe
Spoons that could be turned into knives
Frozen bottles of water
Frozen dead cats
Feet - feet can do a lot of damage
Hands - very adaptable to crime: choking, punching, karate-chopping
And let's not forget possibly the greatest killer of all: automobiles.

Well, it looks like we've got a lot of laws to create, better get started!

Sue

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#229783 - 08/12/11 09:12 PM Re: Edmonton cops vow crackdown on knives [Re: Nato7]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2718
Loc: Alberta, Canada
(~ahem~)

Before we all get our snit in a fit, a few thoughts from the guy who has lived and worked in the Edmonton area all his life ...

First, note the trash tabloid source of the link posted above. Long on editorial blather (supporting the sale of advertising with both hands) and a wee bit short of hard information. I'm not sure if this concerns the bikini-girl-of-the-day in the sports section, but perhaps it should. 'Nuff said.

A slightly more informative article from the Edmonton Journal, with a little more raw detail: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Edmonton+police+after+concealed+knives/5243698/story.html

Note this salient point from the news conference: "He cautioned that the renewed focus on knives won’t impinge on the right of law-abiding citizens to carry knives or other tools for a legitimate purpose."

If you have a look at the photos in the Ed. Journal story, you'll see that the items confiscated are mostly garbage Chinese-made knives. They are useless for mostly anything other than icepick duty.

This is the focus of police efforts, I think: being a bit more proactive (and pushing the fuzzy definition in the Criminal Code) in order to keep the peace. Seriously, if the local beat cop meets up with a known bad actor, and the guy is walking funny because he has a $3 machete down his leg, it's reasonable to assume he's not off to prune his tomato plants.

There are some legitimate concerns around here. There are some local areas where troublemakers, gangbangers, and a very tiny minority of immigrants who haven't left the past behind, find reasons to beat on each other. Honest citizens are sometimes blindsided. There is room for some more proactive law enforcement in this regard.

(That said, the murder rate per capita is maybe a tenth of an equivalent U.S. city. Perhaps we just have a lower cultural tolerance for this? I dunno. None of my business. No political commentary intended.)

Cheers,
-Doug


Edited by dougwalkabout (08/12/11 09:14 PM)

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#229785 - 08/12/11 09:34 PM Re: Edmonton cops vow crackdown on knives [Re: dougwalkabout]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1628
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout

A slightly more informative article from the Edmonton Journal, with a little more raw detail: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Edmonton+police+after+concealed+knives/5243698/story.html

Note this salient point from the news conference: "He cautioned that the renewed focus on knives won’t impinge on the right of law-abiding citizens to carry knives or other tools for a legitimate purpose."


There's too much wiggle room there, and they know it. The words "for a legitimate purpose" are unnecessary and leave prosecution wide up for discretion. Either you make a certain instrument illegal or you don't. You don't muddy the waters by adding superfluous language. You trample rights when you subject an innocent person to being arrested for having a 2" blade or whatever. "Sir, we're arresting you so we can run an investigation to make sure you were carrying for a legitimate purpose."

If you want to criminalize the behavior, then you criminalize the behavior, instead attaching such language to a law about a tool. For example, you make stabbing someone with a knife illegal outside of self-defense. It's a subtle but hugely important difference.

The problem here is that the government (including law enforcement) wants the easy way out. They can't (or are too lazy to) enforce the laws that are ALREADY THERE. These are feel good laws that do absolutely nothing but restrict the rights of law abiding citizens.
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If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#229787 - 08/12/11 09:43 PM Re: Edmonton cops vow crackdown on knives [Re: ireckon]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1379
Originally Posted By: ireckon
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout

A slightly more informative article from the Edmonton Journal, with a little more raw detail: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Edmonton+police+after+concealed+knives/5243698/story.html

Note this salient point from the news conference: "He cautioned that the renewed focus on knives won’t impinge on the right of law-abiding citizens to carry knives or other tools for a legitimate purpose."


There's too much wiggle room there, and they know it. The words "for a legitimate purpose" are unnecessary and leave prosecution wide up for discretion. Either you make a certain instrument illegal or you don't. You don't muddy the waters by adding superfluous language. If you want to criminalize the behavior, then you criminalize the behavior. For example, you make stabbing someone with a knife illegal outside of self-defense. (There are already laws against doing that.) A civilized society cannot be both civilized and have laws that are wide open for interpretation.

The problem here is that the government (including law enforcement) wants the easy way out. They can't (or are too lazy to) enforce the laws that are ALREADY THERE.



First, thanks to Doug for his post. I agree that the originating newspaper website link is hardly considered as a reliable source.

As for the whole knives argument here in Canada, there is very lengthy thread here from a couple of years ago. In summary, the LEO's up here use great discretion when it comes to interpreting the knife laws and if you are not viewed as a deadbeat type of person and don't have a criminal record then they will leave you alone..
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Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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