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#229660 - 08/11/11 05:20 AM Re: Londoners take to streets to clean up [Re: Susan]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: Susan
how about loading shotgun shells with rock salt?


Pretty much useless.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot33.htm


I've tried rock salt loads and it seems like it would be roughly as effective as throwing handfuls of rock salt at them. It just doesn't have enough mass to penetrate most clothing at any reasonable distance.

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#229665 - 08/11/11 11:38 AM Re: Londoners take to streets to clean up [Re: LED]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
Quote:
As for defending your home from rioters goes, pepper spray, bear spray, a restaurant sized jar of jalapenos in a garden sprayer , whatever works I suppose


How about a mustard gas (chlorine gas) deterrent?

Easy to make and deploy, two thin-walled glass jars with lids, one small enough to fit inside the other. Fill one with ammonia, the other with household bleach. Throw between you and advancing mob and retreat inside your home.

Pete

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#229667 - 08/11/11 12:10 PM Re: Londoners take to streets to clean up [Re: paramedicpete]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 857
Loc: Colorado
If it came to using mustard gas, I think the jury (if it came to that) would understand firearms more in your favor (in the US anyway).

Self-defense is always potentially TWO fights - the one you hope to survive and the one in court afterwards.

Trouble is, every perpetrator is "a good boy who was just about to get his life straightened out" when described in court. Using chemical weapons outlawed for war since WWI against the little angel doesn't look good.

(Even though I heartily agree with the concept!)

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#229668 - 08/11/11 12:17 PM Re: Londoners take to streets to clean up [Re: paramedicpete]
Russ Online   content
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5176
Loc: SOCAL
** ammonia/chlorine binary area weapons ** Like it smile
Would the broken glass be considered an edged weapon?

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#229671 - 08/11/11 01:40 PM Re: Londoners take to streets to clean up [Re: paramedicpete]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

Quote:
Easy to make and deploy, two thin-walled glass jars with lids, one small enough to fit inside the other. Fill one with ammonia, the other with household bleach. Throw between you and advancing mop and retreat inside your home.


Under the Geneva convention the uses of chemical weapons is out lawed even against rioters who want to rape, pillage and murder.

Instead how about a Blue Peter Claymore (easier to make than a Tracy Island) . All you need is some Hexamine Tablets, some nitric acid, some plasticine and some ball bearings etc. wink

What about visual deterrents? I bet Victor Kreuger has never been bothered by rioters.

Here is a place to start;

http://www.jelldragon.com/viking_helmets.htm

And playing some bag pipe music should also intimidate the rioters....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrUs5AfrNjc

laugh

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#229674 - 08/11/11 02:29 PM Re: Londoners take to streets to clean up [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
Quote:
Under the Geneva convention the uses of chemical weapons is out lawed even against rioters who want to rape, pillage and murder.



I could be wrong; since I am not a lawyer, but it would seem to me the Geneva Convention would not apply to a citizen protecting their home from a mob. It is my limited understanding it applies to treatment and rules of engagement for uniformed military combatants.

Also, is not CS gas and pepper spray a type of chemical deterrent/weapon?

Pete

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#229676 - 08/11/11 02:42 PM Re: Londoners take to streets to clean up [Re: celler]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3168
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: celler
Fortunately, not necessary. Four years working as a deputy sheriff to pay for law school eventually paid off.


The attorney that mentioned this issue was teaching a CCW class. I can't evaluate his competence. Are there no jurisdictions in the US where this could cause an issue?

Quote:
The CS canisters (predecessor to current pepper spray) I was issued were no bigger than the bear spray canisters I described earlier. You might say I noticed, I had a few in the trunk of my patrol car.


I've never been in law enforcement. Everything I know about crowd control I've learned from watching the news. How many canisters would you need to disperse a large angry mob?

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#229677 - 08/11/11 02:43 PM Re: Londoners take to streets to clean up [Re: paramedicpete]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
I could be wrong; since I am not a lawyer, but it would seem to me the Geneva Convention would not apply to a citizen protecting their home from a mob. It is my limited understanding it applies to treatment and rules of engagement for uniformed military combatants.

Also, is not CS gas and pepper spray a type of chemical deterrent/weapon?


Sorry, my mistake, I thought the discussion in the thread was talking about general warfare, civil war or insurrection and not just criminal civil disturbance. It would appear that there is a fine line between what appears to be happening in England and say Libya and Syria as being portrayed by the media. wink



Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (08/11/11 02:45 PM)

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#229678 - 08/11/11 02:43 PM Re: Londoners take to streets to clean up [Re: sheldon]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3168
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: sheldon
chaosmagnet and NightHiker, thanks, it was a useful discussion (for me at least).


It was my pleasure. Welcome to ETS!

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#229679 - 08/11/11 02:44 PM Re: Londoners take to streets to clean up [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Russ Online   content
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5176
Loc: SOCAL
I'm sure you meant the Hague Convention of 1899. Unless I'm mistaken, Geneva does not concern itself with Chemical Weapons.

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