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#228406 - 07/25/11 02:04 AM Re: Norweigan island mass shooting lessons? [Re: Susan]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1576
Originally Posted By: Susan

I'm sure there were adults there. But with just one person shooting, I always tend to think HE HAS TO RELOAD SOMETIME! Was it so inconceivable that someone might have the idea to get around him and bash his head in with a chunk of wood or a rock?


Reloading takes only maybe three seconds for trained people. Breivik had a Ruger Mini-14, which has 30-round magazines. Let's say in a comparable scenario, the shooter shoots each person twice. That's around 200 rounds. He just needs 6-7 magazines, which can be carried neatly in a vest and in a tactical bag. If he has some training, he knows how to transition from rifle to pistol, which can stop the brave head bashers (Breivik also had a Glock).

What punishment can we invent that would give us justice in a situation like this? I am horrified.

Da Bing


Edited by Bingley (07/25/11 02:06 AM)

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#228409 - 07/25/11 02:17 AM Re: Norweigan island mass shooting lessons? [Re: Bingley]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Quote:
What punishment can we invent that would give us justice in a situation like this?


Don't publish a word he says. Don't play any recordings.

With an ego like that, it might well kill him. Pity, hmmm?

But the media will see that that doesn't happen. He will get his satisfaction through them.

Sue

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#228412 - 07/25/11 02:34 AM Re: Norweigan island mass shooting lessons? [Re: dweste]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
So in this horrible situation, what looks like best practices?

Are there some reaction strategies that offer higher chances of survival? Should any be taught and practiced?

My ideas for punishment are bouncing through many ghastly fantasies, but I do not think there is any deterrence value in making this sick person a martyr.

This whole thing feels way above my pay grade.

Edit: I am thinking of buying a pistol, which I know is an irrational reaction to my frustration that there is nothing I can do about this nightmare.


Edited by dweste (07/25/11 02:44 AM)

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#228420 - 07/25/11 03:21 AM Re: Norweigan island mass shooting lessons? [Re: dweste]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1576
Originally Posted By: dweste
Edit: I am thinking of buying a pistol, which I know is an irrational reaction to my frustration that there is nothing I can do about this nightmare.


Just so that you know, owning a pistol is useless without the knowledge and the conditioning to use it. As for additional expenses, you're looking at:

-- Defensive pistol courses, often at $600-$1,000 a pop, plus travel and lodging, in addition to ammunition, extra magazines, etc. This is a perishable skill, so if you cannot find ways to maintain it (and it's often hard to maintain it, because ranges often do not allow anything but standard target shooting for safety reasons), you will have to retake these courses regularly.

-- A new wardrobe, so you can carry concealed. You will have to get larger pants (usually two sizes larger), plus jackets, shirts, etc. to help prevent the print through.

-- Naturally, there is a whole range of accessories, starting with a good concealed holster.

-- I'd also recommend some sort close-quarter combat training, or at least weapon-retention training, so someone can't disarm you easily.

You can get a decent compact gun for $500, suitable for concealed carry. But there are many other things to consider. There are generally administrative expenses, assuming you live in a state that allows concealed carry. If you want to carry in more than one state, you may have to get a non-resident license from Utah or Florida, which is a non-trivial recurring expense.

You may also need to consider a backup gun. If you have a semi-automatic for the ease of use and the higher capacity, you might want a more mechanically robust "six for sure" revolver than works even when not entirely clean.

You will also have to change your behavior patterns. There will be some places that you may not be able to to go without your gun. So you will have to figure out where to deposit your gun while you go there. You may not hug people anymore. You may lose friends. You may scare colleagues. You will have to learn all about gun laws. There are many people in jail who had thought they were justified in self-defense, and the jurors disagreed with them.

So don't just run out and buy a gun, unless you are willing to make yourself informed, trained, and well-equipped.

Da Bing

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#228421 - 07/25/11 03:32 AM Re: Norweigan island mass shooting lessons? [Re: Bingley]
bigmbogo Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 82
Originally Posted By: Bingley

What punishment can we invent that would give us justice in a situation like this? I am horrified.

Da Bing


One of the early articles I read about the attack said that if he's convicted, he could receive about 25 years in jail, making him eligible for release before he's 50. So fantasize all you like, but the Norwegian justice system has it under control.

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#228422 - 07/25/11 03:40 AM Re: Norweigan island mass shooting lessons? [Re: bigmbogo]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1576
Originally Posted By: bigmbogo
Originally Posted By: Bingley

What punishment can we invent that would give us justice in a situation like this? I am horrified.

Da Bing


One of the early articles I read about the attack said that if he's convicted, he could receive about 25 years in jail, making him eligible for release before he's 50. So fantasize all you like, but the Norwegian justice system has it under control.


If it is scientifically possible, I'd like to hook him up to all the survivors and the families of the victims, so he can feel exactly all the grief, fear, anger, and pain they feel. In other words, he will be in the shoes of those he harmed. Then he will have to feel the contempt that the entire world has for him. Maybe if he feels these emotions and reflects on them every single hour for the rest of his life, he will be able to begin to regain his humanity in some small ways. He will begin to understand what he has done, and how many families he has destroyed.

I, for one, can't imagine how one's mind won't blow up under the weight of such suffering, and that's not what I want.

Da Bing


Edited by Bingley (07/25/11 03:41 AM)

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#228424 - 07/25/11 04:24 AM Re: Norweigan island mass shooting lessons? [Re: Basecamp]
Xterior Offline
Member

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 148
I've got this from a Belgium newsite.

It's the link I post under this.
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/10756/Bloedbad-...Noorwegen.dhtml

All their articles

http://www.hln.be/hln/article/pagedList.do?language=nl&navigationItemId=10756&navigation=

They are in the Dutch language so you might use an online translation

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#228427 - 07/25/11 10:03 AM Re: Norweigan island mass shooting lessons? [Re: Susan]
Byrd_Huntr Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1174
Loc: MN, Land O' Lakes & Rivers ...
Originally Posted By: Susan
Quote:
What punishment can we invent that would give us justice in a situation like this?


Don't publish a word he says. Don't play any recordings.

With an ego like that, it might well kill him. Pity, hmmm?

But the media will see that that doesn't happen. He will get his satisfaction through them.

Sue


+1. Life in solitary bread and water confinement with no books, magazines, TV, and no chance to communicate with a living being.

The so called 'freedom of the press' (actually freedom to profit from the miserary of others) needs to be suspended by a court on this issue, with a crippling fine and lengthy imprisonment to the 'journalist', the editor, and the outlet that tries to profit from this.
_________________________
The man got the powr but the byrd got the wyng

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#228429 - 07/25/11 10:23 AM Re: Norweigan island mass shooting lessons? [Re: dweste]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
We know what would be punishment for us, but are we sure we know what this guy would consider punishment? Putting aside for the moment whether we care.

What is the purpose of punishment? Is there really a punishment that really works as a deterrent for someone who might do this kind of thing?

I am not fond of the idea of having my tax dollars support the daily needs of this type person unless it somehow is making a difference that is more positive than "voting him off the island."

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#228444 - 07/25/11 01:21 PM Re: Norweigan island mass shooting lessons? [Re: dweste]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
We know what would be punishment for us, but are we sure we know what this guy would consider punishment?


After quickly reading through the 1500 pages of this Walters? manifesto, there is little I suspect that the perp would considered punishment as according to the document he considers himself perpetrating a martyrdom operation. The document contains very highly detailed counter intelligence and terrorism operations (probably plagerised from counter terrorism manuals being the son of a Norwegian diplomat.)

What is really disturbing about the document (assuming that the document is attributed to the perp), is the cultural symbolism appeal he makes to American right wingers/Christian fundamentalists, such as the so called 'Knights Templar' US marine uniform and SEAL emulation photo opportunity publicity shots. Hopefully this is the work of the lone nut or even a localised Norwegian/pan European cell of right wing extremists and not Alex Jones analysis of his accurate prediction of current events and is not a pysops operation perpetrated by even darker forces during the current looming financial crisis.



Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (07/25/11 01:23 PM)

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