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#227555 - 07/10/11 06:00 AM Re: Hiking Kit Help [Re: duckear]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Originally Posted By: duckear
Ditch the FAK.


Ditch the PSK, too?

What happened to "equipped to survive"?

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#227558 - 07/10/11 11:42 AM Re: Hiking Kit Help [Re: duckear]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6788
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: duckear
Ditch the FAK.
Duct tape,toilet paper,some ibuprofen, and benadryl for a day hike is plenty.



This is the kind of thinking that gets you into trouble. you don't need a huge FAK, but "just a day hike" can still lead to serious injuries. I have seen and treated lots and lots of examples.

Some kinds of terrain can produce more injuries than others, as can some activities. perhaps that is a better way to go about your planning. i am a great fan of elastic bandages, some serious sterile bandages, and the ability to improvise (bandannas are great). Most important is your training, which is weightless....
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#227564 - 07/10/11 03:53 PM Re: Hiking Kit Help [Re: hikermor]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2186
Loc: Bluegrass
My daypack FAK is the AMK 0.7 (I think). It's fairly robust for the bumps and bruise category. I added in an older USGI trauma bandage (prior to the Israeli bandage being standard issue). I typically have a triangle bandage too - this thing is likely Vietnam era, cotton, been with me at least 20 years as my "do everything" rag. Honestly, it's an amazing piece of kit. Bandage, compress, strap, bandana for nose or on my head for a hat, wet it down when hiking and throw over my neck, kleenex, pot holder... those are what I've used it for just what I can think of right now. Anyway, back on track, the 0.7 is in a great bag that just barely squeezes in that trauma dressing. I think I have a 3" ACE wrap in it too, but can't remember, and it's only sitting about 12K miles away right now.

Anyway, if you want to discuss pro's/con's of some FAK items, feel free to PM me. Might take me a couple days to get back, but I'm a total first aid kit-[censored]. I have one in my truck, one in my garage, 2 backpacking kits (the 0.7 and one built into the old USGI plastic kit), and 2 sitting under my bunk right now a foot away. Not to mention my issue IFAK. Believe me, I know gauze...

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#227566 - 07/10/11 05:06 PM Re: Hiking Kit Help [Re: bacpacjac]
Roarmeister Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 09/12/01
Posts: 900
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: bacpacjac

I fight an unending battle against over-packing.

I've been repacking today and have come up with this set-up. This kit is intended only for day hikes and unplanned overnights, not camping and not trips where we share pavement with the parking lot. We often go on unplanned hikes. The kit lives in the trunk of my car for just such an occasion. We're in South Eastern Ontario, and don't spontaneously venture farther than about an hour or so drive from some sort of civilization.

What are your thoughts?


There is nothing wrong with having a large kit with you in the trunk for those unplanned trips. However, what you should get into the habit of is resorting out your requirements when you get to the trail head. Take 15 min. and start cutting the items that you most likely will NOT require on say an day hike. If the weather is good, cut back a bit on the rain gear. If you know the area you are hiking in then taylor your backpack to fit your excursion.

If you are just going with a day hike then cut things down to about 15 lbs, water and snack included. Or max 20 lbs if inclement weather is expected. It is about managing risk. If the terrain is moderate and weather good and you are with 1 or 2 other people then the requirements are light. If you are going to do a long day hike on tough terrain with the reasonable possibility of an overnight then add extra items to the kit in case you need to bivy.

I think I read somewhere in this thread that someone advocated abandoning sunscreen as if Southern Ontario/Canada doesn't get strong UV rays! I have some choice words for that kind of stupidity but I will let that pass for now. I've hiked in the area around Huntsville and it is very easy to get an 8/9 on the UV scale of 10 in that region on a sunny summer day and even a 10 if you are on water. A 50spf sunscreen if a NECESSITY when you are out in the open.

For day hikes, I would go without some of the redundancy on your list. AND it looks like you've edited your message and trimmed it down. A number of other people have commented and have given good advice.

My day hiking kit is lightweight ~10 lbs before water/snack and is basically my EDC and daypack with only slight modifications. If the hike is really short then I would cut back further.
Spyderco Salt1 pocket knife
Keys
Micro-carabiner with Leatherman Squirt S4, P-38 can opener, Micro ferrocium rod, Photon Freedom microlight
Pencil, space pen
Smart phone
Fenix P3D flashlight
Leather gloves
Survival kit (modified AMK psk)
First aid kit (meds included benadryl,lotradine,loperamide hydrochloride, ASA, Tums)
Plastic trowel & 1 use tp in handle
Sunglasses
Sunscreen, bug repellent (sample sizes)
WMA Wilderness Medicine field guide
Storm butane lighter
20' duct tape wrapped on plastic card
Fox-40 whistle
Suunto Compass
Map of area
GPS (Garmin 62s) /w attachment clips
Geocaching related stuff
Camera /w extra AA batteries
Leatherman wave /w bit kit (often deleted)
Rain jacket
Notebook
3-litre Platypus hydration bladder & tube
8X25 binoculars (often deleted)
Tilley hat /w comb in hidden pocket
Sil-nylon tarp shelter
Hiking pole
I sprayed my pack, hat and outdoor clothes with permethrin.

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#227567 - 07/10/11 05:25 PM Re: Hiking Kit Help [Re: Roarmeister]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1386
Originally Posted By: Roarmeister

I think I read somewhere in this thread that someone advocated abandoning sunscreen as if Southern Ontario/Canada doesn't get strong UV rays! I have some choice words for that kind of stupidity but I will let that pass for now. I've hiked in the area around Huntsville and it is very easy to get an 8/9 on the UV scale of 10 in that region on a sunny summer day and even a 10 if you are on water. A 50spf sunscreen if a NECESSITY when you are out in the open.


Although I don't live in Ontario, rather on the west coast of Canada and I could not agree more with this. I spent most of my life NOT wearing sunscreen and have paid dearly, medically wise for it. These at times, extremely painful treatments will continue for the rest of my life. Nowadays, every one of my kits, packs, vehicles, work bags, have a tube of sunscreen in them so there is no excuse for me for not wearing it.
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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#227580 - 07/10/11 07:12 PM Re: Hiking Kit Help [Re: bacpacjac]
duckear Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 477
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Originally Posted By: duckear
Ditch the FAK.
Duct tape,toilet paper,some ibuprofen, and benadryl for a day hike is plenty.



This is the kind of thinking that gets you into trouble. you don't need a huge FAK, but "just a day hike" can still lead to serious injuries. I have seen and treated lots and lots of examples.

Some kinds of terrain can produce more injuries than others, as can some activities. perhaps that is a better way to go about your planning. i am a great fan of elastic bandages, some serious sterile bandages, and the ability to improvise (bandannas are great). Most important is your training, which is weightless....




Yeah, I said ditch the FAK.

Apparently many of yall have no idea what a .5 AMK FAK contains while defending it.

From the AMK website:

The Adventure First Aid .5 contains basic supplies to treat cuts & scrapes, insect bites, and blisters.

Bandage Materials
10 Bandage, Adhesive, Fabric, 1" x 3"
1 Bandage, Adhesive, Fabric, 2" x 4.5"
2 Bandage, Adhesive, Fabric, Knuckle
2 Bandage, Butterfly Closure
2 Dressing, Gauze, Sterile, 2" x 2", Pkg./2

Medication
1 After Bite Wipe

Survival Tools
1 Mini Rescue Howler Whistle

Wound Care
6 Antimicrobial Towelette




So, what exactly is so much better about the FAK he is carrying for a day hike vs just using what he already has, ie duct tape, TP, and bandanas?

For day hikes, most folks are better off with meds and improvising any needed bandages. I can cover a wound with TP and a bit of tape. Can you make Motrin or Benadryl?










Edited by duckear (07/10/11 07:15 PM)

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#227583 - 07/10/11 08:56 PM Re: Hiking Kit Help [Re: duckear]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6788
Loc: southern Cal
Well, to each his own...How sterile is your TP?

There are items in the cited FAK I do not bother with -like the knuckle bandages and the butterfly closures. The remainder does not weigh all that much (and I am a bit of lightweight fanatic - see some of my prior posts).

The point i would make is that your FAK should be tailored to the terrain, the enterprise, and the weather/environment. Your FAK for a day's rock climbing would vary substantially from what one might carry on a hike down a one mile long nature trail, or for what one might carry on a long bike ride.

I cannot make Motrin or Benadryl which is just fine because I have never needed those preparations, either for myself or for any of numerous victims I have attended over the years.

Improvisation is key, naturally, as is training and experience. We once made a dandy cervical collar out of a blue foam pad and tape (medical, not duct) when we encountered a victim of some nasty rockfall while on a nice routine climb. Medically sterile dressings can be produced in the field, but one rarely has the luxury of time to undertake the process. It is ever so much better to whip them out form your FAK.

I have resorted to my FAK often enough, in enough varied circumstances, that I am seldom without a FAK.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#227584 - 07/10/11 09:17 PM Re: Hiking Kit Help [Re: bacpacjac]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3600
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Another consideration is that the most experienced medical person, and the one most able to improvise, might be the one who is sick or injured. I like simplicity but when it comes to first aid, I want things ad easy and ad straight-forwas as possible.
_________________________
Mom & Adventurer

You can find me on YouTube here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT9fpZEy5XSWkYy7sgz-mSA

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#227588 - 07/10/11 10:49 PM Re: Hiking Kit Help [Re: bacpacjac]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
bacpacjac, all the above being written and digested, what has survived to make a spot on your list?

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#227593 - 07/11/11 12:12 AM Re: Hiking Kit Help [Re: dweste]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3600
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: dweste
bacpacjac, all the above being written and digested, what has survived to make a spot on your list?


Here it is, Deweste, with your input strongly considered. Reminder that this my summer pack for long day hikes and impromptu overnights, either alone, with DS and DH, or Beaver/Cub Scouts:

ON-BODY (modified EDC & layard)
-paracord (2 ft) necklace with photon
-Leatherman Kick with AAA mag and mini key fob with 4 strike anywhere matches (in LM sheath)
-Lanyard with Fox 40, Gerber Vise mini tool, firesteel and LED
-Ritter PSK with added mini bic, SAK Spartan, extra duct tape, extra nylon cord, mylar blanket and bandana

NAVIGATION
-Local maps in small Coglan's map case
-Silva compass

LIGHT
-LED headlamp & 1 set extra batteries

FIRST AID
-AMK .7 FAK with 2 maxi pads, tiny bottle of purelle, 1 triangular, 1 bandana
-OTC Meds: Tylenol, adult & childrens Benedryl, chewable immodium

SHARPS
-Sierra saw
(SAK in PSK, LM on belt)

SHELTER
-disposable rain poncho
-lightweight hand-knit wool blanket
-2-person heat sheet

WATER/FOOD
-Lg kleen kanteen (full)
-1.5 ltr water bottle with filter (full)
-Micro PUR tabs
-3 packs instant hot chocolate (perfect amount for large KK)
-Fruit & Nut trail mix
-2 cliff bars

FIRE
-Butane lighter
-small pill vial with cotton balls soaked in vaseline

MISC
-small spray can bug juice
-small spray can suncreen
-lip balm
-toilet paper (about 1/4 of a regular 1ply roll, inner cardboard tube removed)
-travel size pack of baby wipes
-cel phone (non-activated, with SIM card for 911 only)
-bear bell
-small air horn
-extra prescription glasses in hard case

This is combined with hat, sunglasses, watch, undershirt, lightweight LS shirt, long pants, sock and hiking boots or shoes.
_________________________
Mom & Adventurer

You can find me on YouTube here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT9fpZEy5XSWkYy7sgz-mSA

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