there seems to be a recurring thread in our scenarios..that of a long distance to travel, limited or marginal quality equipment, and those of us with limited wilderness skills..I really appreciate the responders of this forum that indicate their particular skill level....perhaps we need to look at a new genre (though we've talked about it before)that of a "get home bike"...we are talking about car campers so assuming passable roads.. a double, hitch mount bike carrier...two yard sale hybrid mountain bikes...add a heavy duty rack and extra water bottle carrier...rim kit, patch kit, and bike air pump ...a $400 investment for peace of mind seems pretty cheap, plus it would give you some transportation at your camp site...

I'm a car camper. With small children, it's the camping that we can do.

1) I always leave a trip plan with a trustworthy person, even when going to staffed campgrounds. When I return from a trip I close the trip plan out with my trustworthy person.

2) We always have cellphones with us.

3) We don't own a PLB or SEND, something we're hoping to fix when the InReach comes out.

4) If we can stay put and expect rescue, that's generally what we'd want to do.

5) If all of the above fail, we'd hoof it, sticking to the road that seemed most likely to have traffic on it.

My skill level- low

my take-

1 stay by/in car- If you can move it/push it so it is in sight of a road, do so. Mark the car to signal help
2 attempt to text for help (everybody's got cell phones)
3)fill large cooler with water from cleanest source- let sit overnight to let sediment drop- filter water off top few inches, or boil it. (use coffee peculator
4) work on signal fire. (worst case- use tires to make UGLY BLACK SMOKE
5) sit tight!- not short on water- go back to old 3 minutes air, 3 hours shelter, 3 days water, 3 weeks food....

If you are not found in 3+ weeks in this setup, you will be hurting- maybe hike out at week 2?

Nah, sit tight.

Obviously they can be found, as you found them. Start a big enough fire in an open cleared area and someone will be along to see what it is.

I spend a lot of time in various national forests etc. There is more observation by the various staff then one would suppose. Not overt, just good work on their part. If a vehicle stays in one place long enough, it will be noticed. Either by roving patrol or airborne.

My plan, even though I have good equipment and skills, is to stay with the vehicle. Do things to make it observable and wait it out.

Usually after the first 8 or 10 days, a ranger, warden or whatever just "happens" to wander by.

Nomad

The trouble with that is that you'll probably won't be able to... While you won't starve to death for several weeks, nobody said anything about being fit for a 60 mile hike at the various stages of starvation.

The Swedish military survival manual (which is at least 20 years old, I'd love to see this verified or falsified) makes a bold statement that a healthy young male needs 500 kcal of carbohydrates each day to be able to operate at a functional level. Less than that and all the negative effects of food deprivation will leave most people in a poor state to fight the survival battle of their lives (no resistance to cold, poor cognitive skills, fatigue and so on).

This figure is (probably) based on some of those "hell week" excercises that they put some cathegories of military personell through: Give them 500 kcal and they'll still able to think and work, give them less and they essentially aren't.

As I understand it, no carbohydrates what so ever means your muscles are canibalized to be converted to something your brain can eat. Some carbs (500 kcal?) and you'll be very hungry, but you will burn your own fat reserves and can essentially keep going untill they run out. (According to the Swedish manual, a healthy young male has about 2-4 weeks before that happens).

Then again, there are those that claim that such nuisances as unable to keep warm, unable to think, unable to do hard physical work are mere transitional - that you can get into fat burning (ketogenesis), you will be decent functional, albeit at a lower tempo. I doubt those making that claim has ever tried it... Neither have I, for that matter. I doubt "cleansing" rituals as fasting (i.e. not eating for religious reasons) or extreme low carb diets in controlled circumstances has all that much relevance for a true survival scenario. BTW, Cody Lundin seriously suggests that everyone should try fasting every once in a while to see how it affects you personally - there may be large individual differences.

Walk out, in this situation. You’re not lost. Leave an obvious note on the front seat of the car as to which way you’re going. Take the road that is likely to have the most traffic. If you run across someone who can help, they’re most likely to be on the road. If you wait with the car, someone MAY come, or may not. Don’t wait until you’re weak to leave; leave while you’re still in good shape. If someone comes to your camp on foot (and w/o a PLB), someone will still have to leave to get help. Why should it be someone else?

Leave behind everything that is heavy or bulky. Excess weight or bulk can throw off your balance. Leave the totes, the tent, the coolers, the collapsible water container, one of the sleeping bags and both foam pads.

TAKE:
Fire: BIC lighter, small pack of paper matches, some of the kerosene from the lantern if you’ve got a container. Take extra map pages for tinder. Divide them in half (at least) and put in plastic bags. If one gets lost or wet, you’ve still got the other.

Food: Whatever you’ve got, if you can carry it all; otherwise, balance the lightest with the most calories.

Dishes/utensils: depending on what kind of food you’re taking; at least take a few utensils. Take the percolator, leave the loose innards behind. Boiling water will kill most organic pathogens, and you’re not likely to have too many industrial pollutants in most mountainous areas unless it’s from old mining operations.

Flashlight, for comfort if nothing else.

Water: take the purchased water bottles. Find some cord or wire, make slip-loops to hold the necks, fasten them around your waist to carry. Take a few extra t-shirts to filter out the chunks from collected water. Drink a reasonable amount of water before you leave, if you've got extra. If you've got a gallon container, take it only as far as the contents last.

Shelter: Tent rain fly & fleece blanket, one sleeping bag if you can handle the extra bulk. Take extra sweaters, sweatshirts/pants, etc, if not (roll them up in the sleeping bag). If you have some larger garbage bags, I would take them for use as raincoats, packs or ground cloths.

Cutting: Hatchet, make a belt loop with cord or wire; take both knives, one each. If you've got a Leatherman (etc), take it.

Tear out relevant map pages.

Make packs out of sweatshirts. Tie the bottom closed, use arms for fastening, probably diagonally.

Running shoes are better than flipflops!

Sixty miles downhill is somewhat less effort than uphill, I would guess maybe four days. If it takes six to do it without exhausting yourselves (hypothermia danger) or injury, that’s okay, too. Don’t run and don’t jog. This is not the time to sprain your ankle. Pushing always seems to cause trouble, and trouble is one thing you don’t need.

Don’t go for ‘shortcuts’. They still haven’t found Al Chretien.

Sue

The question of how well traveled the area is that it really depends on where you are. There are literally hundreds of miles of old forestry and mining roads in this vast area that can see little or no traffic depending on the time of year.

The only reason we seen these people was due to us being well above them and catching a glimpse of sun reflecting off a truck window. Due to the semi-remoteness of the area, there is always a chance that there could be something wrong hence our decision to check. When we told the couple this, they were thankful that even though they were fine, that we took the time to check on them.

Lots of very good answers and ideas that I would not of thought of had I ever, in the very unlikely event found myself in this situation.

If I had to choose what route to take, it would be over the pass. 6000' feet is not all that much higher then option #1 and in my experience of the area, the overall benefits of the pass in terms of cooler day temps, natural resources available and the fact that the distance is shorter, probably would negate any advantages of option #1 in terms of energy and calories burned.

I estimate a minimum hike of 2 very long days either way given my knowledge of the area, the expected terrain and also based on my physical hiking conditioning which is the high side of very good but not quite excellent.

For people in fair to good shape, I would estimate at least double this time frame. 60 miles on foresty roads is not all that far and like anything, the distance is more of a mental obstacle rather then a physical obstacle...aside from getting a leg/foot injury or debilitating blisters etc.

Overcoming or not overcoming the mental obstacle usually seals their fate. You would probably be surprised at the percentage of the population who wouldn't even attempt the trek even if it was only a 60 mile multi day hike, they would give up there and then and sit it out hoping for rescue even if it meant slowly starving to death. The reality is that the soft and flabby modern Homo Urbanus have basically forgotten how to walk anything more than a mile or two.