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#226948 - 06/30/11 03:44 AM Organic Foodies Go ... Nuclear?
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432

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#226952 - 06/30/11 05:57 AM Re: Organic Foodies Go ... Nuclear? [Re: Art_in_FL]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
That article makes me wonder who owns and operates that author. Follow the money.

It is curious that people who espouse irradiation don't have any interest in dealing with the source of common contamination in places like high-density feedlots, filthy USDA-approved slaughterhouses and food production facilities, the proliferation of the 'hot' E. coli O157:H7, GMO crops created to tolerate far more pesticides than normal, multiple sprayings of pesticides, etc.

What they really seem to want is to irradiate every bit of food we eat so no cost or effort at all has to be expended to PREVENT contamination. They seem to be perfectly happy with meat coated with feces, but that's okay because the irradiation kills the bacteria. But the meat is STILL contaminated with feces, but now it's SAFE feces. What kind of insanity is that???

"There is no evidence that food irradiation is harmful to consumers, and also no evidence that it affects the nutritional quality of food."

He must use the same spin doctor as Monsanto! While irradiated meat and produce can sit on the shelf for three or four months, the vitamin content is dropping steadily. Try reading Zapped! Irradiation and the Death of Food by Wenonah Hauter and Mark Worth, it's quite an eye-opener.

For other info on food irradiation, check out the articles at Food Irradiation research

Sue

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#226958 - 06/30/11 11:49 AM Re: Organic Foodies Go ... Nuclear? [Re: Susan]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
Originally Posted By: Susan
What they really seem to want is to irradiate every bit of food we eat so no cost or effort at all has to be expended to PREVENT contamination. They seem to be perfectly happy with meat coated with feces, but that's okay because the irradiation kills the bacteria. But the meat is STILL contaminated with feces, but now it's SAFE feces.

With all due respect, Sue, you're missing the point. The article states that organic vegetables may be more prone to contamination because it is *purposely* covered in feces in the form of organic manure ferilizer.

Radiation pasturization can work wonders, but it is not terribly economical. The cost might be offset slightly by longer shelf life, less waste, less liability and higher value to the few consumers who are not superstitious. However, the physical and regulatory overhead to run an irradiation facility is quite a burden.
_________________________
- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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#226959 - 06/30/11 11:52 AM Re: Organic Foodies Go ... Nuclear? [Re: Susan]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2148
Loc: Bucks County PA
What she said.
Thanks.

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#226962 - 06/30/11 01:02 PM Re: Organic Foodies Go ... Nuclear? [Re: Art_in_FL]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

Scientists who fail to mention where E.coli 0157 strain originated from in the first place who then go on to condemn organic farming because of what was still an unsubstantiated claim (new unknown strain of E.coli bacterial form) of the German Bean Sprout outbreak is pretty poor for an article, which made it into the New Scientist magazine.

Quote:
Escherichia coli O157:H7 excretion by commercial feedlot cattle fed either barley- or corn-based finishing diets.

Link to article i.e. Cows and Cattle being force fed GMO corn in the industrial process cycle much beloved of fast food restaurant chains is the originating causality of the German bean sprout Ecoli 0157 ?? out break can just as easily be claimed.

As for the irradiation of foods then it would be easy to dismiss the article as well by suggesting that this is already being carried out on a very wide scale in Japan and the eastern Pacific Ocean as we speak. And there are quite a few folks who aren't really to happy about it.




Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (06/30/11 01:03 PM)

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#226963 - 06/30/11 01:17 PM Re: Organic Foodies Go ... Nuclear? [Re: thseng]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
Radiation pasturization


There is no such thing (unless they use a neutron source), I think your referring to nuclear ionizing radiation sterilization, which is completely different to pasturization. I know its semantics but the industry scientists who rely on the industry to pay their mortgage at the end of the month like to simplify the terms to dupe the public.



Organic Food Label Symbol


Irradiated Food industry food label Symbol. - Keep an eye out for this at the local supermarket on the food shelves

whistle


Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (06/30/11 01:31 PM)

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#226967 - 06/30/11 02:26 PM Re: Organic Foodies Go ... Nuclear? [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

There is no such thing (unless they use a neutron source), I think your referring to nuclear ionizing radiation sterilization, which is completely different to pasturization. I know its semantics but the industry scientists who rely on the industry to pay their mortgage at the end of the month like to simplify the terms to dupe the public.

Actually, there is an important distinction.

Radiation sterilization kills all the microorganisms in the food. It also tends affect the flavor and texture and destroy some vitamins, etc. If the food was hermetically sealed in a container before processing and not opened, it would be shelf-stable although vitamins and other nutrition would slowly degrade over an extended time. There’s another process that does exactly the same thing with heat instead of radiation. It’s called and “canning”. If you don’t need it to be shelf stable, it’s just called “cooking”. So if that’s what you want, just cook it.

Radiation pasteurization, on the other hand, zaps it just enough to kill of the majority of the harmful pathogens, but leaves at least some of the normal spoilage bacteria alive and kicking. If it normally would need refrigeration, it still does. It still spoils and shure smells like it.

Want to try it yourself? You’ll need a 2 liter soda bottle. Fill it with some potentially unsafe pond water and set it out in the bright sun for 6 hours.* Oh my gosh – irradiated food! The only difference between the photons in the UV sun rays and the photons in the gamma rays from a chunk of cobalt 60 is the wavelength.

*http://www.sodis.ch/methode/index_EN
_________________________
- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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#226972 - 06/30/11 04:24 PM Re: Organic Foodies Go ... Nuclear? [Re: thseng]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Pasteurization - Definition

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=8904

Quote:
Pasteurization: A method of treating food by heating it to a certain point to kill pathogenic (disease-causing) organisms but not harm the flavor or quality of the food. Milk is pasteurized by heating it to about 145°F (63°C) for 30 minutes or, using the "flash" method, by heating it to 160°F (71°C) for 15 seconds, followed by rapid cooling to below 50°F (10°C), at which temperature it is stored. Pasteurization is also used with beer, wine, fruit juices, cheese and egg products. Fresh-squeezed unpasteurized fruit juices are a potential hazard, as some E. coli outbreaks have sadly shown.

Named for the French chemist and biologist Louis Pasteur (1822-1895) who invented pasteurization, developed the germ theory, founded the field of bacteriology and created the first vaccines against anthrax and rabies. Pasteur's impact upon medicine was so profound that his name remains attached, not only to pasteurization but also to many other matters (the Pasteur effect; pasteurella; pasteurellaceae; pasteurellaceae infections; pasteurella haemolytica; pasteurella infections; pasteurella multocida; pasteurellosis, pneumonic; pasteurism; etc)


The term is very specific and requires a temperature increase unlike sterilization - perhaps partial sterilization would be a better term for what you described.

Quote:
The only difference between the photons in the UV sun rays and the photons in the gamma rays from a chunk of cobalt 60 is the wavelength.


UV sterilization (as in using a Steripen, not a Pasteurpen) is generally regarded as a non-ionizing radiation i.e. has less energy per photon to generate a electron directly from an inner atomic shell or even be absorbed by an atomic nucleus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-ionizing_radiation

UV sterilization does contain enough energy in the UV photon to disrupt and breakdown DNA though as it is susceptible due to the weak inter molecule bonds which zip up the plastic.

Gamma radiation on the other hand will produce ionization even in heavy metal elements. i.e is much more penetrating.

The industry probably uses the term 'pasteurization' probably because of the context of the general public understanding of its use in milk production. The industry also would no doubt love to drop the term 'irradiated foods' from common parlance as well.







Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (06/30/11 04:26 PM)

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#226973 - 06/30/11 04:44 PM Re: Organic Foodies Go ... Nuclear? [Re: Art_in_FL]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
What annoys me the most is that the food industry COULD clean up their current messes considerably, but they simply WON'T. They REFUSE.

While the media jumps on occasional outbreaks of problems from organic sources, what is the source of most of the food recalls (esp meat)? Answer: Feedlot livestock and USDA-inspected/approved processing plants.

I'm not saying that organic food isn't without a few problems, but since when is fresh food expected to be STERILE? What are the ramifications of eating completely sterile food?

Even when labeled organic, many of the problems that show up are from high-volume growers who have jumped onto the organic bandwagon and have been pressuring the USDA's National Organic Program (NOP) to make exceptions for them, or they're hiding what they're really doing. They don't give a fig about organic methods, they just want to be able to sell their products for the higher prices.

Before the 3-year organic minimums for certification, it used to be one year; some chemical growers were pouring extra petro-chemicals onto their land one year, then selling the produce grown the second year as 'organic'.

There really are pseudo-organic growers who pour raw manure onto their fields instead of composting it for a year or so to kill off most of the pathogens. Then, when the media gets hold of a problem from methods like that, they paint the whole organic movement with the same brush, small farmers, home gardeners, everyone. Then the people lurking in the background with their nuclear accelerators (or whatever they're called) jump out waving their arms, shouting that ALL food needs to be irradiated for safety.

Screw safety -- I want real food.

Sue

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#227015 - 07/01/11 09:24 AM Re: Organic Foodies Go ... Nuclear? [Re: Art_in_FL]
Byrd_Huntr Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1174
Loc: MN, Land O' Lakes & Rivers ...
Follow the money. I suspect that the real motive for irradiation is not to prevent food-borne illness (our benefit) at all, it is to extend the shelf life of 'fresh' foods (their benefit). Of course, irradiation does nothing to reduce chemical residues, and the food is immediately subject to recontamination through handling by packers, stockers, customers, and checkout operators at the store.

All fruits and vegetables, including bagged fresh vegetables like carrots, peppers, and celery should be thoroughly washed at home prior to eating whether organic or not.

The best defense is is to assume that all foods may cause food-borne illness.

Wash your hands, food preparation surfaces, and utensils thoroughly before and after handling raw foods.

Process foods like chicken, fish, and meat on a sterile surface away from ready-to-eat foods like lettuce. Do not cross-contaminate while you prepare dinner.

Do not place raw meat, chicken, fish, etc on top shelves in your refrigerator. they can drip down on lettuce, butter etc and cause food-borne illnesses.

Know the bacteria growth 'danger zone'...between 40 degrees F and 140 degrees F......Keep refrigerated foods below 40 degrees F. Serve hot foods immediately or keep them heated above 140 degrees F.

Divide large volumes of hot food into smaller portions for rapid cooling in the refrigerator.

Follow approved home-canning procedures. These can be obtained from your County Extension Service or from USDA bulletins.

Heat home-canned foods thoroughly before tasting.

When in doubt, throw it out
_________________________
The man got the powr but the byrd got the wyng

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