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#226510 - 06/23/11 06:28 PM Re: Knife for an 8 year old [Re: Eugene]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2148
Loc: Bucks County PA
Originally Posted By: Eugene
Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
[quote=hikermor]
I think my generation was the last to consider "Free Range" parenting simply normal parenting.


Nope, Free Range Kids is the latest fad. My kids can't understand why they can't go out with the other unsupervised 2-6 year olds playing on the transformer behind the house across the street.


BS.
There's a difference between "feral" and "free" and the smartest kids I know are those who were given the opportunity to get cut, dirty, bruised and involved in a wonderful world. They are savvy, they deal with bullies, they make friends wherever we go. The dumbest kids are the ones who are constantly being told what will happen if they are not careful - by constantly being warned of a persistent imagined danger from everything and everyone just breeds fearful citizens who will do whatever they are told will make them "safe".

But of course, I could rattle off all kinds of facts and figures about the reality of violent crime today vs. when I was a kid (much less) or the reality of how our instant media delivers fresh news of global horrors makes us unable to think clearly about what a real risk is vs. an imagined one (hint: don't drive if you want to be safe, terrorists would have to take down a jumbo jet 1x an hour to match the fatality rate of car wrecks in the USA). But we're a nation unswayed by facts that interfere with what we are told or want to believe.

Imagine our national reaction today to George Metsky:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Metesky

An enclosed pad transformer is NOT really dangerous, despite the ample warnings on it that it will apparently kill you at a distance. It's a humming, locked metal box. I would love to climb on it. What makes it go? What is it for?

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#226514 - 06/23/11 07:52 PM Re: Knife for an 8 year old [Re: bacpacjac]
WolfBrother Offline
Stranger

Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Austin, Tx
Originally Posted By: bacpacjac
You guys ROCK! Thank you so much for all your help! I'm getting more emotional about this as we go. What I thought would be a simple decision isn't turning out to be. He's going to be over the moon!

I fully expect boo boos along the way but he'll learn, as we all did. (Sometimes a little self-inflicted pain helps the lesson stick.)

Wolf, welcome to the forum! You must be a very proud Dad and Leader. It's awesome watching them isn't it?!


Yes I am. Tuesday he turned 29.

I've had to drop out of Scouting due to a number of Family issues (My Dad - 94, My Mom - 88 this past 15th, My MILaw - 85 this past 6th, My Wife -- all have various/sundry health issues that have eaten up my free time. Except for SSon, I'm more or less the only Male family member around.)

Although last year, I was invited to one Scout's Eagle ceremony. He presented me with a BSA coffee cup and said that if I hadn't been there he would have never made it to First Class.

Very nice gift.

WB
_________________________
WolfBrother
This article is reproduced IAW Sec 107 of title 17 US Copyright Law relating to fair-use & is for the purposes of criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, & research.



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#226516 - 06/23/11 08:28 PM Re: Knife for an 8 year old [Re: MartinFocazio]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2830
Originally Posted By: MartinFocazio
Originally Posted By: Eugene
Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
[quote=hikermor]
I think my generation was the last to consider "Free Range" parenting simply normal parenting.


Nope, Free Range Kids is the latest fad. My kids can't understand why they can't go out with the other unsupervised 2-6 year olds playing on the transformer behind the house across the street.


BS.
There's a difference between "feral" and "free" and the smartest kids I know are those who were given the opportunity to get cut, dirty, bruised and involved in a wonderful world. They are savvy, they deal with bullies, they make friends wherever we go. The dumbest kids are the ones who are constantly being told what will happen if they are not careful - by constantly being warned of a persistent imagined danger from everything and everyone just breeds fearful citizens who will do whatever they are told will make them "safe".

But of course, I could rattle off all kinds of facts and figures about the reality of violent crime today vs. when I was a kid (much less) or the reality of how our instant media delivers fresh news of global horrors makes us unable to think clearly about what a real risk is vs. an imagined one (hint: don't drive if you want to be safe, terrorists would have to take down a jumbo jet 1x an hour to match the fatality rate of car wrecks in the USA). But we're a nation unswayed by facts that interfere with what we are told or want to believe.

Imagine our national reaction today to George Metsky:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Metesky

An enclosed pad transformer is NOT really dangerous, despite the ample warnings on it that it will apparently kill you at a distance. It's a humming, locked metal box. I would love to climb on it. What makes it go? What is it for?



Its more of letting their 5year old basically babysit their three year old while the adults are in the house updating facebook and their blogs. We've seen that two year old go in the street a few times and ran out to catch him a few times ourselves. The 5 year old daughter has turned in to the bully who bosses everyone else around and has no respect for adults, when told to not braid my daughters hair (because mama just fixed her hair) she tries to sneak her around the side of the house. I recognize the difference between letting kids who are old enough and mature enough roam or go elsewhere with permission and just being lazy parents.
Its the same neighbor whose blanket fell behind the dryer and caught the house on fire and was then freaking out because they had nothing and after the neighborhood organized a collection of stuff didn't want any because they didn't get to pick it out themselves and now is researching the "safest" dryer (since it was somehow the dryers fault).
When free range = no boundaries and no rules its not what the original intent was.

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#226520 - 06/23/11 10:03 PM Re: Knife for an 8 year old [Re: bacpacjac]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
There's a distinct difference between free-range and neglegence in my mind. (Giving DS free-range with his knife before he's learned it's rules is over the line for me. Giving him one a few years before Scouts Canada says he can have one, and teaching him how to use it safely, not so much. That said, he won't take it to Cub events. Respecting group rules is as important as other people respecting ours.)

Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on perspective, we don't all agree on where that line is. Free Range Kids is one of my favorite books but I find the comments section on the website disturbing because so many people refuse to accept the boundaries other people set for their own kids, while many others think their kid should be able to have their heart's desire regardless of others.

It's a matter of respect in my books!
_________________________
Mom & Adventurer

You can find me on YouTube here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT9fpZEy5XSWkYy7sgz-mSA

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#226521 - 06/23/11 10:08 PM Re: Knife for an 8 year old [Re: bacpacjac]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Nice find Izzy. I inherited 2 similar knived when when Grandfathers died. They're "lost" in the house somewhere after a certain DS wanted secretly to look at them when he was 5. It's an on-going treasure hunt.
_________________________
Mom & Adventurer

You can find me on YouTube here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT9fpZEy5XSWkYy7sgz-mSA

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#226527 - 06/23/11 11:22 PM Re: Knife for an 8 year old [Re: bacpacjac]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Your mother's a wise woman Izzy!
_________________________
Mom & Adventurer

You can find me on YouTube here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT9fpZEy5XSWkYy7sgz-mSA

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#226534 - 06/24/11 01:44 AM Re: Knife for an 8 year old [Re: ]
ratbert42 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/31/06
Posts: 178
Loc: Florida
I wouldn't get any kid one of the Victorinox or Wenger rounded-tip "My First Knife". I got one for my daughter years ago and it's never been used. Half the cutting they'll want to do needs a sharp point. She did just fine with a real knife.

For a Cub Scout's first knife, I'd pick some swiss army variant. Nothing super-thick with a lot of tools, but enough tools to get them excited. It's funny to ask a pack of boys if anyone has a can opener and watch them all scramble to get theirs. Unfortunately there aren't a lot of models with locking main blades. Most of the new Victorinox ones have that serrated one-hand-opening blade, which I don't think will work well for a first knife. (Hard to sharpen, almost impossible to carve with.) Wenger has a few classic-style swiss army knives with a locking blade. So except for a couple Wengers, you just have to accept the risk that the knife will accidentally fold on them. They really need to learn to control the knife so that doesn't happen.

For a little older scout, I'd pick a single-blade locking knife. I love Spydercos and a Delica seems like a decent fit without getting too expensive. Gerber and Bucks might be a little easier on the budget. I cringe when I see kids in our pack/troop with dollar-store cheapo knives.

On another topic, I don't know why any group of scouts wouldn't be allowed to use knives. I don't know the Canadian rules, but even in the UK scouts can use knives with some limitations. In the Boy Scouts of America, boys can earn their "whittling chip" in Bears (3rd grade, 9-10 years old) to carry and use a pocket knife. I don't think there is any adult supervision required but they are expected to use it safely. Now a huge problem in the U.S. is that many groups meet in schools where knives are banned. That sucks but there are plenty of opportunities outside of pack meetings at the school to work on knife skills.

I can't quite let the thread go without commenting on scouting in general. I hope this doesn't blow up and derail the conversation, but it's a sore spot for me. If someone has a bad experience with one Cub Scout/Boy Scout/Girl Scout pack or troop (or council), they really should try to change their group or find or start a new one, rather than just walking away from scouting in general. I don't like all the rules and stuff either, but it's a great opportunity for a lot of boys (and girls) that often don't get a chance to do this stuff. I don't just put up with it for my kids but for all those other kids whose parents don't know how to use a knife or cook on a fire.

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#226548 - 06/24/11 03:50 AM Re: Knife for an 8 year old [Re: ]
Denis Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
Here's something that'll make some folks maybe feel young again. It did me.

The knife I mentioned in a previous post being both the first knife my Mother got me and one of the first I ever had came today...

Nice ... I have the pretty much the same one; it was my first knife from when I was in Cubs back in the 80's. By the markings, it's a Stag Camper model also made in Ireland.

After many years of neglect I recently cleaned it all up, put a new edge on it and now it's a functioning knife again instead of a rusty momento in a drawer.

Here it is:

_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#226549 - 06/24/11 03:56 AM Re: Knife for an 8 year old [Re: ratbert42]
Denis Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
Originally Posted By: ratbert42
I wouldn't get any kid one of the Victorinox or Wenger rounded-tip "My First Knife". I got one for my daughter years ago and it's never been used. Half the cutting they'll want to do needs a sharp point. She did just fine with a real knife.

I was wondering about the rounded tip. When looking at it I didn't really see any downside, but again I didn't really see any advantages either (other than optics). It'll be interesting to see how it works out.
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#226552 - 06/24/11 04:18 AM Re: Knife for an 8 year old [Re: bacpacjac]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2752
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I got one of these Victorinox 'first knives' for my nephew, but was tempted to keep it myself. It's a nice, thin package with a lot of utility, unlike the usual bulky SWAK. The saw (it's a real saw) turns it into a highly useful tool.

BTW, I took a file to it and gave it a sheepfoot profile which had ... wait for it ... a sharp point. Only took a couple of minutes, and really didn't shorten the blade at all.

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