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#221926 - 04/19/11 06:45 PM Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item [Re: Mark_F]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
Anyone can be sued, does not mean they will win.

Quote:
The first and best: the bleeding stops with pressure applied, I get the victim to medical attention in a timely manner, no other complications or consequences.


That would be great

Quote:
Second outcome: The bleeding doesn't stop with pressure, I apply a tournaquet, save the victims life, but they lose the limb. In the lawsuit, a medical professional testifies that a tourniquet was not necessary and I am screwed.


As long it is within your scope of training and you can explain your use, you should be okay. The pricipal of life over limb would be your lawyer's position and your medical professional's point of view.

Quote:
Third outcome: I don't apply a tourniquet and the victim bleeds out and dies. In the lawsuit, a medical professional testifies that a tourniquet would have saved the victims life and I am screwed.


Possibly, if you had the training and had a duty to perform you might lose, otherwise you should be okay.

Quote:
Fourth outcome: I do nothing for fear of being sued and the victim bleeds out and dies. I am sued for doing nothing and I am screwed.


Only if you had a duty to perform.

Pete

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#221946 - 04/19/11 10:13 PM Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item [Re: Mark_F]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
I suspect the kind of damage that some of the people here are visualizing where they would waffle about using a tourniquet aren't really tourniquet types of damage.

A cut, even a deep one, can often/usually be controlled with pressure. However, an arm that has been ripped off by machinery, or a leg that has been mangled in a car or railroad accident are no-brainers -- a tourniquet is all you can do.

A pair of my regular RR crews ran their train past a man beside the tracks who was waving his arms at them. They stopped the train and ran back to him. He didn't even know that both his legs had been amputated by the previous train. Did they apply tourniquets? You bet your mule they did! Did they save the man's life? Yes, they did.
BNSF crew save's man's life

Something I learned since I started this job: if someone has a limb amputated by a train wheel, APPLY THE TOURNIQUET IMMEDIATELY! Train wheels are several inches wide with a narrow edge on the inside. The flat part of the wheel crushes the tissues, skin and bones, and the edge severs the limb. The crushed part is almost always on the person, and the limb can't be reconnected.


"Anyone can be sued, does not mean they will win."

They don't have to win to ruin you financially. The cost of the battle can be extensive.

Sue

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#221948 - 04/19/11 10:20 PM Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item [Re: Susan]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3077
There always seems to have been some disagreement as to what type of injury requires a tourniquet and what might be construed as a flesh wound or even a scratch. whistle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXY9TuuwyL8



Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (04/19/11 10:23 PM)

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#221952 - 04/19/11 11:58 PM Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item [Re: Frisket]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Not sure there is much new under the sun. My PSK and BOB each include an analog, manual [non-electronic] dive compass.


Edited by dweste (04/19/11 11:58 PM)

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#221953 - 04/20/11 12:31 AM Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item [Re: paramedicpete]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 5917
Loc: southern Cal
[quote=paramedicpete If direct pressure, elevation and pressure points do not control bleeding very quickly, the advice is to apply a tourniquet early in the process.
[/quote]

This was what I was taught, and what I implemented, back in the mid-70s. Direct pressure always worked. This included an arm amputation at the shoulder cause by walking in to the rear rotor of a helicopter. I think we were fortunate there as there wasn't much of a site for the T.

I have always been ready to apply a T if bleeding persisted, but so far it hasn't.....

"The more things change, the more they remain the same."
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#221954 - 04/20/11 12:46 AM Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item [Re: Frisket]
GarlyDog Offline
τΏτ
Old Hand

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 776
Loc: The People's Republic of IL
I use the peanut lighters a little differently for EDC. I have two. One is an intact lighter but no fuel. The other has the lighter removed and is replaced with PJ soaked cotton ball wrapped in aluminium foil. A little tuft of cotton ball is teased through a slit making it a wick. I use the lighter case to hold the burning cotton ball like a permanent match. I do this because I can't seem to keep fuel in these things very long, even without use.
_________________________
Gary








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#221956 - 04/20/11 02:37 AM Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item [Re: Mark_F]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2184
Loc: Deep south... Carolina
Originally Posted By: Mark_Frantom
Fourth outcome: I do nothing for fear of being sued and the victim bleeds out and dies. I am sued for doing nothing and I am screwed.

The first three are definetely possibilities.

Unless you're a medical professional, the fourth won't happen. You don't have a duty-to-act. It would be incredibly difficulty to sue someone for going about their own business. Not to mention, if you don't stop, they probably don't know who you are - which makes it kind of tough to sue you.


Edited by MDinana (04/20/11 02:40 AM)

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#221957 - 04/20/11 02:44 AM Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item [Re: Frisket]
Crookedknife Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/10
Posts: 24
Loc: Washington
My whiz-bang item is a pair of folding glasses. I'm practically blind without vision correction, so having a set of spares around is pretty much required. Glasses are an awkward item to fit in a small kit, so I had my prescription installed in a set of optical-quality folding readers. The case is maybe the size of a cellphone. I always take them with me.

The frames are Myspex brand, but I've since found that there are smaller and cheaper options out there. However, my optometrist was impressed at their quality.
_________________________
"Let us climb a mountain, hanging on by low scragged limbs." - Roger Zelanzany

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#221970 - 04/20/11 12:11 PM Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item [Re: Frisket]
LesSnyder Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1454
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
OD mosquito netting.... camouflage, sunshade, fish net, coarse filter media, bandage material, cut/woven for cordage

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#221972 - 04/20/11 12:30 PM Re: Your Most Innovative Survival Kit Item [Re: Mark_F]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2760
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Mark_Frantom
Second outcome: The bleeding doesn't stop with pressure, I apply a tournaquet, save the victims life, but they lose the limb. In the lawsuit, a medical professional testifies that a tourniquet was not necessary and I am screwed.

Third outcome: I don't apply a tourniquet and the victim bleeds out and dies. In the lawsuit, a medical professional testifies that a tourniquet would have saved the victims life and I am screwed.

Fourth outcome: I do nothing for fear of being sued and the victim bleeds out and dies. I am sued for doing nothing and I am screwed.


As long as I act within the scope of my training, I expect that any lawsuit would be financially survivable. I'm a lot more concerned about living with the knowledge that I didn't do everything I could do to save someone's life.

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