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#220735 - 04/01/11 11:32 PM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: Alex]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1313
Fukushima workers quoted as saying that they have been exposed to lethal doses of radiation ...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout...ie-if-necessary

Heck of a deal. One day you're going along fine as a worker for a major power company in Japan. Then two weeks later your life is coming to an end.

Pete #2

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#220761 - 04/02/11 02:34 PM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: Pete]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1201
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: Pete
Fukushima workers quoted as saying that they have been exposed to lethal doses of radiation ...
That doesn't seem likely. The article itself says that 3 workers had 170-180 millisieverts, and that was the worst case that got them sent to hospital for a check-up. You need around 2,000 ms for a fatal dose. No-one has died, no-one is likely to die.

The article is mainly based on an interview, not with a worker, but with a mother of a worker. I'm sorry, but it's not very credible. Maybe they have said they are prepared to die; that's heroic and gung-ho and applaudable, but not the same as actually dying.

The article also has quotes from people who refused to work there. They are as ignorant and paranoid as most of the rest of them. There's so much fear-mongering in the media. The bias and lack of rationality is sad.

Meanwhile an average of 100 people are killed each week mining coal.
_________________________
Quality is addictive.

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#220764 - 04/02/11 03:06 PM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: Brangdon]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1313
Brangdon ... you're definitely right that other professions suffer high death rates. That includes mining, and fishing in some waters off the US coast. Also, the article does rely upon second-hand information. But i wouldn't dismiss the story out of hand. It's likely that the Fukushima workers have radiation exposure meters on their person when they go to the plant each day. So they may be aware how much exposure they are really getting. It's also possible that TEPCO is being moe straightforward with their at-risk workers about the potential consequences of what's going on (even though TEPCO's public reporting has been poor). Since there have been neutron beams and reactor containment failures reported for this incident, I'll be very surprised if some workers don't die from this.

Pete #2

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#220766 - 04/02/11 03:20 PM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: Brangdon]
chaosmagnet Online   content
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2793
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Brangdon
You need around 2,000 ms for a fatal dose. No-one has died, no-one is likely to die.


I don't think that's right. What I've read is that 1 Sievert (1000 mSv) is enough for a significantly increased lifetime risk of death by cancer. Generally, radiation sickness starts at 2 Sv. It's five Sieverts that will kill you dead, even if you get medical treatment.

I believe that the legal exposure limit for reactor workers during lifesaving operations is 150 mSv. Based on the news reports I've read so far, none of the Japanese reactor workers have been exposed to anything close to 1 Sievert, much less a fatal dose of radiation.

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#220818 - 04/03/11 11:34 PM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: chaosmagnet]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3077

High resolution photos of the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant available here

http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-npp/daiichi-photos.htm

Looks like something very heavy was ejected from No3 plant to make the big hole in the No 3 Turbine hall roof.

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#220846 - 04/04/11 06:11 PM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: chaosmagnet]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
I believe that the legal exposure limit for reactor workers during lifesaving operations is 150 mSv. Based on the news reports I've read so far, none of the Japanese reactor workers have been exposed to anything close to 1 Sievert, much less a fatal dose of radiation.

I've read that the normal US limit for nuclear workers is 50 mSv. The emergency limit for Fukushima Daiichi workers was raised to 250 mSv. Last I read, there were 21 workers there who had reached 100 mSv of cumulative exposure.

There are the two workers who had radioactive water spill into their low boots for almost an hour. The way I have seen it reported, they received about 175 mSv of gamma radiation, but 2-6 Sv of beta radiation to their feet and legs. Beta radiation is not so penetrating, but still, that is ionizing radiation, so that seems like a large dose to me.

However, it was also reported by TEPCO that there were not enough dosimeters in the early days of the crisis. Their supply of dosimeters had been destroyed or washed away somehow by the tsunami so some workers labored without them until they could get more. I remember reports of radiation spikes of 400 mSv/hour at the main gate in the those early days, so who knows exactly how much the workers were exposed to closer to the reactors back when things were really dire?

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#220893 - 04/05/11 02:42 PM Re: UC Berkeley is monitoring air and rain daily [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
>SNIP<

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/2011/fukushima290311.html

Quote:
Concentrations reported for both, plutonium-238 and plutonium-239/240 are similar to those deposited in Japan as a result of the testing of nuclear weapons. The ratio of the concentrations of plutonium-238 and plutonium-239/240 in two of the samples indicate that very small amounts of plutonium might have been released during the Fukushima accident, but this requires to be further clarified.


The Plutonium bomb dropped on Nagasaki surely wasn't just a test. The IAEA b*lls*it statement could have at least been a little more politically correct.



I'm happy to say that the testing referred to atmospheric tests of nuclear weapons by the several countries who participated on those tests in the Fifties and Sixties. Drop by
http://www.unscear.org/docs/reports/2008/09-86753_Report_2008_Annex_B.pdf
and check pages 255, et seq., for the information that quote refers to. The statement was correct, politically and factually. In fact, Pu-238 and Pu-239 are scattered throughout the world as a result of the atmospheric tests those countries conducted. Annex B has more details than I'm interested in, but they're there for those that want to know.

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#220894 - 04/05/11 03:17 PM Re: UC Berkeley is monitoring air and rain daily [Re: philip]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3077
Thanks for the link, but I think that we can safely assume that if your going to find Plutonium in substantially high contamination doses then there are a few places in the world to look, such as Palomares in Spain and in Thule in Greenland and just north of Las Vegas etc not forgetting the widespread contamination in the old Soviet client states. As the earlier fission bombs weren't particularly efficient then I think you can safely assume that the highest proportion of Plutonium fallout found on the Japanese mainland would be from the Nagasaki detonation using a Plutonium weapon. The later larger more powerful weapons tested in the Pacific were primarily fusion weapons which left very little Plutonium behind. These weapons were also much much further away from the Fukushima site compared to Nagasaki.

Of course the idea that the levels of Plutonium contamination of the Fukushima site by the IAEA could not be distinguished between the level of Plutonium fallout from the use of above ground testing from the 1940s to 1960s and from the fuel from a smoldering No3 reactor using 7% Plutonium Oxide MOX fuel which had ejected the top of the inner pressure vessel containment, which surrounds the inner fuel core, 1500 feet into the air to land on the nearby turbine hall to then have vast qualities of Plutonium contaminated hot particles rain down, is the b*lls*it statement. frown


Edit - The British did drop the largest ever fission bomb in the Pacific, which dwarfed all other previous fission weapons so this weapon may have produced vast quantities of Plutonium fallout.


Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (04/05/11 03:33 PM)

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#220920 - 04/05/11 08:05 PM Re: UC Berkeley is monitoring air and rain daily [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
Of course the idea that the levels of Plutonium contamination of the Fukushima site by the IAEA could not be distinguished between the level of Plutonium fallout from the use of above ground testing from the 1940s to 1960s ... is the b*lls*it statement.

Edano announced on TV that the plutonium likely came from one of the reactors. However, the amounts found weren't that high--0.18 and 0.54 Bq/kg of soil in the two samples that found plutonium-238, so that's only a few times above background. And plutonium-238 doesn't have to come from the MOX fuel in number 3. It is fission by-product in all of the reactors so at this point, I don't think anyone really knows exactly which reactor it came from since any or all four of them might have had some sort of breach of containment.


Edited by Arney (04/05/11 08:45 PM)

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#220935 - 04/05/11 10:24 PM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: Alex]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -

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