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#220246 - 03/25/11 03:57 PM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: Pete]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3077
Quote:
I was wondering over the last day or two how it was possible for tap water from Tokyo, which is quite distant from Fukushima


Er, a MOX (Uranium/Plutonium fuel) reactor disintegrated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3tVy01Xi7M (I don't believe the hydrogen explosion explanation)

And they are still calling the destruction of 4 nuclear reactors at Fukushima a level 6 incident. Even Chernobyl didn't have 1000+ tonnes of spent fuel sitting above the reactor when it blew up.

Chernobyl had the same yellow rain and they had the same 'its pollen' cover story.

http://dailybruin.detroitsoftworks.com/index.php/article/2006/04/remembering-chernobyl

Now they are admitting that the reactor vessel in No3 may have been breached.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/26/world/asia/26japan.html?_r=1

It would seem there is an intentional 7-10 day delay before the Japanese authorities will fess up and admit the obvious. Considering that this nuclear disaster has been ongoing for around 2 weeks now the information provided by the Japanese authorities is quite scandalous. mad

The Future of Northern Japan it would seem is based on the vagaries of where the wind blows.

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#220250 - 03/25/11 04:29 PM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1353
Arney said: "The other worrying thing was the discovery of vegetables grown in Tokyo being found with cesium-137 above the legal limits. If the vegetables grown in your own city are becoming contaminated with unhealthy levels of radiation, I'm sure it's making the people wonder about the safety of their own bodies more and more."

No kidding. And not to mention the fact that someone out there is still harvesting these vege's in the fields, putting them in boxes or bags, and trasnporting them to the market. What kind of exposure are they getting?

As far as the iodine in the sea is concerned, let's think about how dependent the Japanese people are on seafood. I haven't seen any stories that talk about people refusing to buy fish or shellfish in Japanese stores, but you have to imagine this is going on.

Am_Fear_Liath_More said: "It would seem there is an intentional 7-10 day delay before the Japanese authorities will fess up and admit the obvious. Considering that this nuclear disaster has been ongoing for around 2 weeks now the information provided by the Japanese authorities is quite scandalous."

I agree - it is scandalous. The only thing that exceeded this level of outrage was the total coverup by the Soviet Union when they had Chernobyl. But I don't think any of us would have expected an open democracy like Japan to behave this way. I wouldn't be surprised if this causes the downfall of high-level politicians and company executives.

Pete #2


Edited by Pete (03/25/11 04:33 PM)

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#220251 - 03/25/11 04:39 PM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: Pete]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3077
Arrrggggghhhhhhhhhh....... mad

Quote:
Japan live blog: Radiation burns may be like 'sunburn,' expert says

[11:34 a.m. ET Friday, 12:34 a.m. Saturday in Tokyo] Three men working near the No. 3 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant Thursday stepped into water that had 10,000 times the amount of radiation typical for a nuclear plant, a Japanese government official said Friday, but nuclear experts said the burns suffered by the workers may not amount to much more than a sunburn.

Beta rays given off by radioactive substances don't penetrate deeply into materials, including flesh, said Nolan Hertel, a professor nuclear engineering at Georgia Tech. Consequently, the danger is relatively limited, he said. "Basically, a beta burn would be akin to a bad sunburn," he said.


http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/25/jap...-nuclear-plant/

Ok so who forgot to bring along the Nivea Sun when trying to put out a burning nuclear power station reactor.





Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (03/25/11 04:43 PM)

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#220254 - 03/25/11 05:13 PM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: MartinFocazio]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Lying has long been the SOP for all governments, and almost as much for businesses. They work on knee-jerk reactions and have no long-term thinking.

So, Japan is a small country with a lot of people (127 million). Food and water and air are becoming contaminated with 'fallout'.

If you were Emperor of the World, what would be YOUR plan for the situation? Not just for the Americans, not just for the rich, but for everyone in Japan?

I am waiting with bated breath to hear your solutions for this godawful mess!

Sue

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#220255 - 03/25/11 05:48 PM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: Susan]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1353
Susan ... that's an interesting question. It should be important to us in the USA, because how do we know that we won't have one of these incidents in the future?

Here are a few steps that I think would be constructive:

1) There should be an independent nuclear monitoring team that goes into action as soon as a nuclear power plant has any kind of emergency. This team should NOT be affiliated with the Gov't or with the power company running the actual plant. It should have the capability to measure radiation levels in air, water, and soil/vegeation, and to report this data directly to the public. It also should have members who have an engineering background who can review procedures taken at the plant, and report these objectively to outside authorities. These steps would provide valuable info to the public.

2) Nuclear reactors in the USA (and elsewhere) should be fitted with extra monitoring equipment to measure temps, radiation levels (incl. in coolant water), and TV cameras ... consistent with what is required for a nuclear accident. It is apparent that the existing equipment is designed to monitor the reactor during normal operation, but there is a lack of data if the reactor has a serious accident. However, that situation is exactly when everyone needs more accurate data. This loophole needs to be fixed.

3) Nuclear reactors should also be fitted with a "black box" device that records all the operational data, but will survive a serious accident and be able to relay the data to an outside source through a radio connection. This kind of re-creation of events could be very helpful when experts are trying to work out the precise details of how things went wrong inside reactors. We have "black boxes" for deciphering data from airplane accidents - we need them for nuclear accidents as well.

As far a Fukushima is concerned ... it's already at a Level-6 emergency. IMO, they need to seal the reactors just like Chernobyl. It's time for serious concrete. Best way to bring it in? If I were them, I'd look at an option for a crane-mounted boom that holds a concrete delivery hose. Just pump in tons and tons of wet concrete. I think it's time to get the workers out of there. Concrete may not fix every problem over there, but it will fix a lot of the radiation escape problems.

UPDATE: Article showing that Fukushima may be emitting radiation levels that are 50-60% of what Chernobyl put out. This is food for thought, given that today's press is stating that a reactor leak may now be underway. This does not sound like a problem that is subsiding.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20...byl-levels.html

Pete #2


Edited by Pete (03/25/11 07:15 PM)

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#220274 - 03/26/11 11:25 AM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: Pete]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1201
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: Pete
I was wondering over the last day or two how it was possible for tap water from Tokyo, which is quite distant from Fukushima, to have enough radioactivity to be a concern for infants.
It's not really a concern for infants. The government is being over-cautious again. See The Register for a more balanced view. Basically, the "safe limit" is based on drinking it for a year, which can't happen here; and even if it did, the incidence of problems would be so low as to be scarcely measurable.

Quote:
This tends to confirm the suspicion that some of these workers may have received very serious radiation exposure.
The above link covers that, too.
_________________________
Quality is addictive.

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#220331 - 03/27/11 07:16 PM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: Brangdon]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3077
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/27_12.html

Quote:
The plant operator, known as TEPCO, says it measured 2.9-billion becquerels per one cubic centimeter of water from the basement of the turbine building attached to the Number 2 reactor.


Or to put it another way 1 litre of water will have 2.9 Trillion Becquerels of radiation or approx 174 Trillion atomic disintegration per minute. As most will be gamma packets of various energies i.e. different desolved fission products, does anyone want to guess the dosage an average man would receive standing 1 metre away for an hour or a day?

Ok a little calculation.

The area of the sphere is 4*pi*r*r, where pi=3.1415 and r=1
thus the area is 12.56 m squared. assuming negligible absorption of the gamma photon as it exits the 1 litre surface volume and the shadow area of the man is 1 m squared this will give a flux of gamma particles per minute of 174/12 Trillion = 14.5 Trillion per minute.

If we assume a gamma decay energy per particle of 1.17 MeV (1.1874x10-13 J) i.e. Cs 137 this give a flux energy of 0.00172 J/min or around approx 0.1 Sv/hr (q=1 for gamma photon) or around 2.4 Sv over a 24 hr period of irradiated dose (enough to give an LD5 - LD50, i.e enough of a radiation dose to give a 5-50% mortality rate, probably around 10-20% mortality rate)

Thats a lot of radiation from a 1 Litre of dissolved water fission products sitting in a Nalgene bottle 1 metre away esp with a half life of Cs137 being around 30 years.







Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (03/27/11 07:24 PM)

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#220370 - 03/28/11 11:01 AM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: MartinFocazio]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1201
Loc: Nottingham, UK
From The Guardian:
Quote:
Tokyo Electric Power (Tepco) said initial reports of a level 10m times higher than normal in parts of the No 2 reactor were inaccurate, although it could not say by how much.

Tepco said at first that the worker who took the measurement, of a pool of water in the reactor's basement turbine building, had fled before taking a second reading. The discovery prompted another evacuation at the site, halting work to pump and store radioactive water that has built up in the turbine buildings of three of the six reactors.

Tepco later said the pool of water had been contaminated but the extremely high reading was a mistake. "The number is not credible," spokesman Takashi Kurita said. "We are very sorry."
It doesn't sound like the figures are reliable enough to do worthwhile calculations with.
_________________________
Quality is addictive.

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#220376 - 03/28/11 01:58 PM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: MartinFocazio]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1353
An update on radiation in seawater near Japan. Does not affect us here in the coastal USA - but i wonder if there will be a concern for the Alaskan fisheries industry?? This problem is a potentially big concern for fishing off the east coast of Japan.

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_17714289?source=rss

Pete #2

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#220518 - 03/29/11 07:16 PM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: MartinFocazio]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1353
OK ... it now appears that one of the reactors at Fukushima has melted down and its contents (fuel and cladding) are dripping as a "lava" onto the large concrete shield mounted below the reactor. This seems to imply that we've got a long-term problem with the release of radiation and radioactive compounds.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guardia...ctive-lava-next

Pete #2

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