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#220107 - 03/23/11 08:48 PM Re: Tokyo tapwater unsafe for babies [Re: Brangdon]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
I haven't checked the international recommendations and guidelines, but my understanding is that those are extremely over-cautious. I guess the Japanese gov is following those guidelines by the letter.

Extremely over-cautious is a good thing. With huge populations, a very small increase in the probability of developing cancer will translate into a number of real people getting seriously ill (though curable, in most circumstances).


Sheep and raindeer grazing in certain mountain areas of Scandinavia are still monitored for radiation levels after Chernobyl. You would have to eat A LOT of meat, and the risk would still not register on the "ridiculously low" part of the scale. Yet, some of these animals will have to be put on special diets for a few weeks to get certain materials out of their system before they can become food for humans.


The most important issue is that you DO NOT want to have any doubt what so ever about food safety and radiation levels. Strict is good.

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#220169 - 03/24/11 03:17 PM Re: Tokyo tapwater unsafe for babies [Re: Arney]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Arney
Authorities warn Tokyo residents that the tapwater contains radiation levels that exceed the safe limit for consumption by babies...I hope this is not a sign of more long lasting things to come.

The radiation level in Tokyo tapwater has dropped but has gone over the limit for baby consumption in several other prefectures, so this issue is not isolated to just Tokyo. So, as long as the reactors are putting radioactive particles into the environment, I guess we won't know if radioactive tapwater will be a more chronic problem or not yet. However, more and more foodstuffs are showing up contaminated.

Tokyo started an emergency distribution of 3-500ml bottles of water per baby. Although I have not heard if pregnant women get any. Anyway, the radiation level dropped before they really got started, but they are proceeding with the plan anyway.

Certain consumer staples like bottled water, rice, milk, and toilet paper are in short supply in Tokyo and stores have begun limiting how much people can purchase at once. That's pretty shocking for the capital city of one of the wealthiest countries in the world, and at this point, no one really knows when the situation will be alleviated. Electricity will still be in short supply as the weather warms up and the hot, humid summer approaches.

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#220172 - 03/24/11 03:35 PM Re: Tokyo tapwater unsafe for babies [Re: Arney]
desolation Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 60
Loc: Sonoma County, CA
Originally Posted By: Arney

Certain consumer staples like bottled water, rice, milk, and toilet paper are in short supply in Tokyo and stores have begun limiting how much people can purchase at once. That's pretty shocking for the capital city of one of the wealthiest countries in the world, and at this point, no one really knows when the situation will be alleviated.


Just in time delivery rearing it's ugly head. No one should be surprised by the shortages. It's the system we've demanded to keep it cheap. It's why you prepare.

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#220173 - 03/24/11 03:47 PM Re: Tokyo tapwater unsafe for babies [Re: Arney]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3077


Neutron radiation bursts have been measured remotely 13 times eminating from the Fukushima plant, indicating possible sub criticality events (Possible Plutonium Fizzles due to cooled gas deposit build ups??) have been constantly reoccurring.

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/80539.html

I don't think we have yet seen the worst. Lets hope we don't have a 1/2 critical mass of Plutonium i.e. a Plutonium stalactite falling into another 1/2 critical mass of pool of molten Plutonium.

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#220178 - 03/24/11 04:09 PM Re: Tokyo tapwater unsafe for babies [Re: Arney]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"...stores have begun limiting how much people can purchase at once. That's pretty shocking for the capital city of one of the wealthiest countries in the world..."

I don't understand, why the surprise? In a city (on an island) with a density of 15,000 people per square mile, two weeks after a multiple disaster? What do you think would be happening (even before now) if that 9.0 quake and a tsunami had hit SoCal, and one of the local nuke plants was contaminating all the fresh food?

Sue


Edited by Susan (03/24/11 04:12 PM)

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#220181 - 03/24/11 04:26 PM Re: Tokyo tapwater unsafe for babies [Re: Susan]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Susan
What do you think would be happening (even before now) if that 9.0 quake and a tsunami had hit SoCal, and one of the local nuke plants was contaminating all the fresh food?

I'm not surprised, but I think it's suprising for most Tokyo residents. The analogy is more like stores in San Francisco are rationing when an earthquake hits Los Angeles and San Onofre nuclear power plant, near San Diego, is melting down. Physically, Tokyo was not really damaged, nor do most of these goods come from or through the disaster zones.

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#220184 - 03/24/11 04:32 PM Re: Tokyo tapwater unsafe for babies [Re: desolation]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1890
Loc: Washington, DC
Originally Posted By: desolation
Originally Posted By: Arney

Certain consumer staples like bottled water, rice, milk, and toilet paper are in short supply in Tokyo and stores have begun limiting how much people can purchase at once. That's pretty shocking for the capital city of one of the wealthiest countries in the world, and at this point, no one really knows when the situation will be alleviated.


Just in time delivery rearing it's ugly head. No one should be surprised by the shortages. It's the system we've demanded to keep it cheap. It's why you prepare.



Washington, D.C. area supermarkets are typically mobbed when there's merely a forecast of snow. Can only imagine what it would be like if the forecast was for radiation. West Virginia, here we come. Take me away country roads.

Doubtful the grocery situation would have been any better fifty years ago. My family lived in Los Angeles during the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962 and I recall my parents saying grocery stores were depleted at the height of it. I remember Nana talking about filling the closets with bottled water.

It's the "Just-In-Time" mentality of individuals that puts people and their families at the mercy of groceries' inventories.

Supermarkets, and the corner groceries, can only hold so much and plan for normal consumption, not crises and panic.

Yep, Japan ought to be a big wakeup call to individuals everywhere, not just in earthquake-prone areas. I'm still pummeling my Oregon-based sister's e-mail with earthquake preparedness information.

In searching for data on the average Japan (and Tokyo) home (storage capacity for preparedness) and typical grocery stores, I came across this news on Wal-Mart's contributions to Japan's disaster recovery. Evidently they have a significant presence there.

http://walmartstores.com/pressroom/news/10558.aspx

Walmart was also mounting a full scale operation to get additional relief supplies into Japan. The supplies include 95 tons of water, acrylic blankets, tents, warm clothes, fleece, portable toilets, flashlights, batteries, and other necessary relief items.


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#220190 - 03/24/11 04:59 PM Re: Tokyo tapwater unsafe for babies [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3077

Chernobyl Cleanup Survivor's Message for Japan: 'Run Away as Quickly as Possible'

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/22/chernobyl-cleanup-survivors-message-for-japan-run-away-as-qui/

Quote:
But didn't you realize the danger and want to leave?
Yes, I knew the danger. All sorts of things happened. One colleague stepped into a rainwater pool and the soles of his feet burned off inside his boots. But I felt it was my duty to stay. I was like a firefighter. Imagine if your house was burning and the firemen came and then left because they thought it was too dangerous.


http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/24/jap...reopens/?hpt=T2

Quote:
[3:26 a.m. ET Thursday, 4:26 p.m. Thursday in Tokyo] Two people working at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant were sent to a hospital after being exposed to high levels of radioactive material in surrounding water, according to Japanese officials. A third worker was also exposed, but was not taken to the hospital.

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#220191 - 03/24/11 05:02 PM Re: Earthqauke in Japan [Re: stevenpd]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1890
Loc: Washington, DC
This memory of my parents' and grandparents' recollections of the 1962 CMC runs on groceries caused me to go to Time magazine's archives.

There is obviously a distinction between fear of imminent nuclear war and today's Japan situation. But in Tokyo today, there is an actual crisis underway and valid concern of radiation creeping into their food and water supply.

If that happened here in DC, there'd be a stampede of minivans and SUVs zooming (or crawling in gridlock) to Costco, Wal-Mart, Sams and every supermarket, mini-mart and corner grocery within 100 miles of the Beltway, at least.

Note the contemporaneous report below that there was hand-to-hand combat in a Los Angeles grocery over the last can of pork and beans. This excerpt is from the cover article of the November 2, 1962 edition of Time.


http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,874578,00.html

Kennedy explained that the quarantine would cut off offensive weapons from Cuba without stopping "the necessities of life." He warned that "any nuclear missile launched from Cuba against any nation in the Western Hemisphere" would be regarded by the U.S. as an attack by the Soviet Union and would bring full-scale nuclear reprisal against Russia.

Shotguns & Beans. There were some Nervous Nelly reactions in the U.S. The stock market, hardly a symbol of U.S. backbone, dropped sharply next day. In Tampa, sporting-goods stores reported a run on shotguns and rifles. In Dallas, a store reported brisk sales" Of an emergency ration pack of biscuits, malted-milk tablets, chocolate, pemmican and canned water. In Los Angeles, a Civil Defense warning that retail stores would be closed for five days in the event of war or a national emergency sent housewives stampeding into the supermarkets. In one, hand-to-hand combat broke out over the last can of pork and beans.

Said North Hollywood Grocer Sam Goldstad: "They're nuts. One lady's working four shopping carts at once. Another lady bought twelve packages of detergents. What's she going to do, wash up after the bomb?"




The human behavior -- individual and group -- exhibited in crises is fascinating to behold. I believe the Japan situation is unprecedented, with two natural horrors (earthquakes, tsunamis) and a manmade horror (radiation) playing out simultaneously.

I don't recall that this precise situation has happened anywhere in the world, ever.


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#220192 - 03/24/11 05:11 PM Re: Tokyo tapwater unsafe for babies [Re: Susan]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 5747
Loc: southern Cal
Exacty, just when was the water bottled? I have no good idea, but I wil bet that the interval is fairly short. If I were really worried about radiation, I would appreciate the assurance that my drink was nuke free.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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