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#219807 - 03/19/11 08:05 PM Re: Preparing for no food - get lean or bulk up? [Re: gonewiththewind]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Originally Posted By: Montanero
Lean muscle mass burns more calories, that is why trainers try to build up their customers who are trying to lose weight and stay in shape. If you look at endurance athletes, and other people who participate in endurance activities, they are lean and not overly muscular. Fitness will aid tremendously in a survival situation, and putting on a few extra pounds prior to an anticipated drop in caloric intake is not a bad idea, if you are physically fit already. Fitness is good, but body builders will not last long without food.


This came up in the early 70s in discussions of US troops in SE Asia. The Geneva Convention says that prisoners of war will be given food comparable to what they give their own troops. Even when the rules were followed US troops, used to three squares and a snack, were looking at something like eight ounces of rice and four ounces of vegetables daily. Supplemented with four ounces of chicken or fish every second or third day if it was available. The locals could thrive on this. US troops found it to be difficult to do and many died adjusting even when given what the NVA considered to be a lavish diet. Of course regular beatings, torture, and other deprivations didn't help and many spent most of their days eating less than the mandated standard. Most, even when they were fortunate enough to get what the rules said, suffered greatly, lost a lot of weight, and those that survived long term as POWs showed large losses of muscle mass.

A 6'4" 250 pound American carrying 60 pounds of muscle can't maintain his normal proportions on the same diet as a 5'4" Vietnamese pushing 140 pounds with 25 pounds of muscle.

I laugh every time I think of fat astronauts. I picture that iconic scene out of "The Right Stuff" with the astronauts walking to the launch pad as people clap and cheer ... but with very round 400 pound astronauts, resplendent in their very wide silver space suits ... and the fat ripples and dances with every momentous step. LOL.

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#219834 - 03/20/11 04:15 PM Re: Preparing for no food - get lean or bulk up? [Re: ZenEngineer]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
Actually ... there's one other thing that we take for granted. We're all assuming that people will actually EAT the food that they are given.

The truth is that we have been spoiled in the West, and we are used to having food "our way". If it doesn't taste like what we like - we reject it. This is not a trivial issue. If i take team members to third world countries, I usually give them my standard lecture about "food discipline" and "water discipline". Basically, this boils down to the fundamental idea that you are GOING TO EAT what you are given, even if the taste is not what you are used to. Most people in third world countries don't have the privilege of having access to enjoyable food - they just eat what's available. I don't ever make team members eat anything that is unsanitary. But still, you'd be amazed at how quickly people turn up their noses at foods that are unfamiliar to them.

As a result of this ... I've learned to watch the teams. And you can usually notice that some people are not eating properly. These people are also the first ones who get sick, and generally fall apart with their physical condition. I am always amazed that people will allow this to happen to their health, as opposed to being more disciplined about eating food that "they don't like".

As a work-around to this issue, I generally keep a few backup supplies for people who are picky eaters. Simple stuff like a few granola bars, some crackers, and a jar of peanut butter. These items help some people to avoid a food catastrophe ... a shutdown in their caloric intake.

Pete #2


Edited by Pete (03/20/11 04:16 PM)

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#219898 - 03/21/11 03:02 AM Re: Preparing for no food - get lean or bulk up? [Re: ZenEngineer]
ZenEngineer Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 09/15/06
Posts: 86
Loc: Northern California
Thank you for your feedback. It's given me more to think about concerning this question.

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#219903 - 03/21/11 03:44 AM Re: Preparing for no food - get lean or bulk up? [Re: Pete]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: Pete
Actually ... there's one other thing that we take for granted. We're all assuming that people will actually EAT the food that they are given.

The truth is that we have been spoiled in the West, and we are used to having food "our way". If it doesn't taste like what we like - we reject it. This is not a trivial issue.


Valid point. I have read for years how "hot sauce" in some form is invaluable in getting rough-and-ready chow from bowl to stomach. A lot of suggested "third world" kits include spices as necessities.

Perhaps some pre-trip experimentation and training might help team members find a "new equilibrium" that's acceptable? A few pre-trip teambuilding overnights, with food and suitable libations, may just make the difference. My $0.02.

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#219908 - 03/21/11 09:29 AM Re: Preparing for no food - get lean or bulk up? [Re: dougwalkabout]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
My biggest experience with exotic food was an expedition in China - lasted one month and we were in the provinces, except going in or coming out, nowhere any tourist areas. We had full time local cooks with our group and were often treated at banquets with local officials.

We soon learned not to bother ourselves unduly with the origins of the dishes presented before us. The saying is the Chinese eat anything with legs, except a table; anything in the water, except a submarine, etc. (actually makes perfect sense physiologically). I know I ate dog a couple of times - horse? - of course. All of us westerners, twelve in all, adapted since we wanted to be fit for the cave exploration that was the main agenda.

We were all in good shape. We had zero incidents of traveler's quick step, which I thought was remarkable. All our drinking water was boiled, BTW. When we got to Hong Kong coming out, however, for our first meal about half of us went to McDonalds, the other half to Jack in the Box. When I arrived home, I was asked if I would like some Chinese food. "Sure'" I said and picked up some takeout. It bore only a vague resemblance to the real thing.

Humans, like pigs, are true omnivores.....
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#219920 - 03/21/11 02:19 PM Re: Preparing for no food - get lean or bulk up? [Re: ZenEngineer]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
dougwalkabout ... good suggestion. I need to add some Soy sauce to my family survival supplies. My teenager will eat anything that is smothered in soy sauce :-)

hikermor ... +1. Agree. I've been lucky to travel to China once myself. You are right. The Chinese will eat anything :-)

Pete #2

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#219942 - 03/21/11 10:34 PM Re: Preparing for no food - get lean or bulk up? [Re: ZenEngineer]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
There is a good reason why the standard 'lifeboat cracker' and survival biscuits intended for fallout shelters were essentially simple vitamin fortified flour/water cracker. They are bland, almost tasteless, and are highly unlikely to be offensive or interfere with digestion. Being so bland is something of a selling point because it makes it less likely that people will raid the survival foods for a snack.

It pays to keep some clearly unobjectionable and easily digestible foods on hand. Some of this has to do with cultural differences but it also can be an issue with medical conditions. I had a friend who was getting radiation and chemotherapy and the only food she could keep down were water crackers. We kept her hydrated with Gatoraide cut with water, and very weak tea.

When I was fighting my way through a case of food poisoning plain crackers got me through the worse of it. Even then I had difficulty keeping them down and had to force myself to eat. When I recovered a bit I expanded my repertoire to Graham crackers and bits of banana.

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