Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 4 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#219054 - 03/14/11 03:53 AM Re: Your city just turned to rubble, what do you do? [Re: Blast]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Basically, you need to be ready to punt. Maybe you didn't know it, but Ma Nature and her brother, Murphy, can (and have) come up with some of the worst combinations of trouble known to Man.

I have been sick all week, and was thinking how totally inconvenient it would be for a major disaster to hit right in the middle of a violent period of projectile vomiting and diarrhea.

But to stick to Blast's scenario...

A hard hat, leather gloves and a padded jacket will go quite a ways in protecting you from falling debris, but so will using some common sense.

If I was at home and able to get clear without injury, I would try to access my pry bars and breaker bar, and then start checking the neighbors.

My sister lives 2.5 miles away, but might be at work at the hospital, where she would be required to stay during the emergency. Her home is relatively stable, with minimal dangers and no large trees, poles or power lines to cause trouble.

If I were in Seattle or Portland, it would be a major problem to get home, and could take a couple of weeks... or more. IF I wasn't totally s**ewed altogether.

Aid stations would probably be a matter of chance. If I knew where the local fire stations were, I could stop there if on the way, but with so many needing help, if I wasn't desperate, I wouldn't bother. Scrounging might do as well.

Radiation -- probably not an issue, and I couldn't do much about it, anyway.

There tends to be quite a bit of available water around here, and with a pot and a fire I could do okay. Collecting rainwater would be easier, if available.

Sue

Top
#219060 - 03/14/11 05:47 AM Re: Your city just turned to rubble, what do you do? [Re: Blast]
Mark_M Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 295
Loc: New Jersey
How do you protect yourself from possible physical dangers (falling debris, fires, etc...)

I have an Xscaper fire mask on my desk at work and attached to my EDC bag. In each Xscaper bag comes a set of goggles with foam face gasket, and I've added an e-gear Pico flashlight (recent upgrade), Swiss Army Compact knife, emergency whistle, and an emergency poncho. I also have N95 masks, a baseball cap, insulated leather gloves, and a nylon poncho and rain pants in my EDC bag and each GHB. There's an 18" wrecking bar and a Leatherman Surge mult-tool in my office filing cabinet. I hadn't considered one before, and I'm not really in an earthquake zone, but a hard hat sounds like a reasonable addition.

How do you find your family?

In theory, this isn't an issue for me, as I'm single and all of my kids are old enough to drive. We have regular discussions about what to do and where to go in the event of an emergency, with way points and a selection of routes pre-programmed into each vehicle's GPS. Rally points include our home, our town's municipal complex (police, courthouse, library, nearby fire and rescue), the storage area 10 miles from our house where I park my RV, and pre-arranged sheltering locations to the north, south and west (east would likely take you closer to trouble), including one sheltering location over 50 miles (and a mountain range) away. I even have a mostly off-road route along an abandoned railroad grade mapped-out to the most distant location, which two of our vehicles can navigate.

We also have a communications plan, which includes cell phones, land line contacts, email, social networking sites and written messages left at home or intermediate rallying points.

How do you get home?

In a scenario like Japan, this would be tough for me. I drive 34 miles each way. My habit has been to park on the street or in an open lot far enough from hi-rise buildings to increase the odds that my vehicle would be accessible through most disasters. But a tidal wave that extended further than 1 mile inland could take that option out of play.

A major earthquake could take out one or more of the bridges I would need to cross. My work location is essentially a peninsula due to the confluence of a bay and two rivers. Technically, these obstacles can be circumvented by going north, but even during normal rush hours these routes are clogged and slow. Add a couple million commuters and local residents trying to escape, and I'm sure all motor vehicle traffic would be at a standstill.

I have sufficient gear and supplies in my GHB to provide for walking home, taking up to 3 days (longer if I tighten rations), but this is kept in my vehicle. The supplies and gear in my EDC can sustain me for 24-hours provided the weather was not too extreme, and additional food/water supplies in my office for up to 72-hours (plus our office also has 72-hour shelter-in-place kits, so that's 144 hours total). I always wear hiking shoes and weather-appropriate clothing.

More likely I would shelter-in-place for 24 hours to see if the situation improves or is improving, before attempting to evacuate.

How do you find aid stations?

My normal travel areas are suburban or urban, so fire, rescue and police stations and hospitals are well known and easily accessible. At our more remote, rural sheltering point we are familiar with the location of local emergency services locations and designated evacuation locations.

Will you be able to get news from radios?

Presumably yes, though not necessarily via network news outlets. I have a small embassy radio (AM|FM|WB|SW) in my GHB and another at home. Maybe I'll get one for my EDC bag.

How can you tell if you've been exposed to radiation?

I'll assume if I'm near or downwind of a radiation event that I'll be exposed, and will try to take whatever precautions I can.

What will happen if you are exposed to radiation?

I assume I will get sick, and possibly die. To try to avoid that, I'd don whatever protective items I have available (e.g., N95 mask, rain gear, hat, gloves, poncho, etc) to try to at least avoid fallout. Depending on the specific circumstances, I'd either try to escape the danger zone if reasonably possible, or find a protected area to shelter-in-place and hope for assistance.

When will "help" arrive (I know this is a potentially loaded question)?

I'd like to think within 72 hours, but its hard to estimate. In general, though, I think that if there's no evidence of an effective emergency response in the area within 24 hours, and your present location doesn't offer the necessary resources or safety to stay put for at least a week, then it's time to evacuate on your own.

What will aid stations be like?

This depends so much on the environment and scope of the disaster. I've only visited aid stations twice: once in a suburban location and once in a outlying-suburban/rural area, both times due to hurricane-related disasters. In both cases there were sufficient trained aid and security personnel in-place by the time I arrived, but I was told that initially there were plenty of sympathetic but disorganized and essentially unhelpful "Good Samaritans" with few supplies and trained responders. Within hours the trained responders and initial supplies and gear were built-up enough to be effective, with triage procedures in-place and security to keep the lookie-loos and well-meaning but untrained Good Samaritans out of the area. In one case the National Guard was on-site within the first 24 hours to completely secure not only the aid locations and shelters, but the entire affected area.

But I have no illusions that things would be as good in something more widespread like Japan's earthquake or even a Katrina-like hurricane hit.

Can you drink water coming out from a broken water pipe?

It depends on the situation and source of the public water supply. Some areas rely on community wells for water, so I would consider that safe to drink. Otherwise, I'd filter it, but don't know how effective that would be against fallout.


Edited by Mark_M (03/14/11 07:49 AM)
_________________________
2010 Jeep JKU Rubicon | 35" KM2 & 4" Lift | Skids | Winch | Recovery Gear | More ...
'13 Wheeling: 8 Camping: 6 | "The trail was rated 5+ and our rigs were -1" -Evan@LIORClub

Top
#219063 - 03/14/11 07:13 AM Re: Your city just turned to rubble, what do you do? [Re: Blast]
fooman Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 80
The roof just blew off another reactor in Japan. I'm guessing staying indoors would be a good idea for a while. Lemme see if I can find out if we're downwind

Top
#219071 - 03/14/11 12:19 PM Re: Your city just turned to rubble, what do you do? [Re: Blast]
LesSnyder Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1680
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
Teslinhiker... I was stationed in Japan 70-72 on the western side of Kyushu... your posted picture was very similar to footwear used in the nearby fishing village of Shaganashima..our operations area was less than 1/4 mile from the Genkai Sea

Top
#219088 - 03/14/11 02:39 PM Re: Your city just turned to rubble, what do you do? [Re: Blast]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
"Basically, you need to be ready to punt."

i was thinking the same thing this morning.

What if it's so bad - that you just need to pull up stakes, grab your family, and walk out of your neighborhood? A lot of families in Japan have had to do that. That would be a gut-wrenching experience. I suppose we could do it, but my family would not be happy about things. And here in the USA you would face real uncertainty about shelter, safety, looting and criminal attacks.

other Pete

Top
#219116 - 03/14/11 05:46 PM Re: Your city just turned to rubble, what do you do? [Re: Pete]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
Thats if you have family to walk out with. We all tend to assume (myself included) our familiy and friends will be there after a catastrophic disaster. As we see in Japan, the sad reality is that loved ones will likely be lost. And those losses may be harder to deal with than the physical dangers. All the kits in the world can't prepare you for that.

Top
#219131 - 03/14/11 07:47 PM Re: Your city just turned to rubble, what do you do? [Re: LED]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
Originally Posted By: LED
Thats if you have family to walk out with. We all tend to assume (myself included) our familiy and friends will be there after a catastrophic disaster. As we see in Japan, the sad reality is that loved ones will likely be lost. And those losses may be harder to deal with than the physical dangers. All the kits in the world can't prepare you for that.


http://i.imgur.com/tcVQD.jpg

Top
#219182 - 03/15/11 03:01 AM Re: Your city just turned to rubble, what do you do? [Re: Teslinhiker]
MarkO Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 137
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Teslinhiker
.......... One of the most sought after items in some areas of Japan where there is extensive Tsunami damage is gum boots (or similar) with steel toes and shanks. The boots are good to keep muck out and feet dry. The steel protection to keep you from getting a puncture wound in the feet which could turn into a very bad situation real fast with no immediate first aid response forthcoming.


Ahhh, the humble wellie. Gotta love it.

For those looking for some here in the US, I've been very happy with my basic Avus brand boots. $22 when I got them 2yrs ago and they're Made in the USA. smile

Top
#219190 - 03/15/11 03:59 AM Re: Your city just turned to rubble, what do you do? [Re: Pete]
MarkO Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 137
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Pete

Go figure.
We seem to be riding a peak in complacency out here.

cheers,
other Pete


I think for a lot of people, the concept of preparing for something like this is to much to grasp.

I've been trying to get my fiancee to work with me on being prepared for over a year but she just doesn't want to accept that such events can and will happen here.

Top
#219237 - 03/15/11 01:57 PM Re: Your city just turned to rubble, what do you do? [Re: Blast]
Mark_F Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 714
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Blast
So let's say your city has just been destroyed an hour ago and you are one of the unhurt survivors, what do you need to be thinking of?


- Let's see, what dangers and problems could be created by the situation? How about downed power lines? Broken bridges? Do you try to cross one if it is the only way to get where you are going? Broken/leaking natural gas lines? Falling debris? Fires? How about looters? It may take a while for them to appear but you never know. Along the lines of looters, you may have to fight your fellow survivors for any supplies if enough are not available, especially at the relief stations (think Haiti a week or two after their big quake). All the while you need to deal with the immediate needs of a survival situation. Shock is a definite possibility so don't overlook it. Also, you need to tend to your own needs, the basic human needs that don't change: shelter, warmth, water, and food. If you are hunkered down somewhere that you will be staying a while, a fire (if it is safe) could be a HUGE morale booster (and allow you to purify any questionable water). If your own survival supplies have been destroyed or lost, scavenging may be the only way to get the materials you need to effect your survival. The ability to improvise will prove VERY useful.

Originally Posted By: Blast
Some common questions:
How do you protect yourself from possible physical dangers (falling debris, fires, etc...)

- Situational Awareness and Extreme Caution … think before you act or move. A hardhat, protective gloves and a dust mask (at least a bandana) would be nice too but are no substitute for simply paying attention to what is going on around you.

Originally Posted By: Blast
How do you find your family?

- DW works here in town less than a mile from my office, DS goes to school then daycare outside the city. He would not go unsupervised but it’s only a 13-mile distance from us here in town if we had to walk. A situation like that would make me glad I sprang for the Rockports that are more comfy than most walking shoes. Other family members and friends are within a mile of him and could pick him up if they were able. This does remind me that DW needs to consider how she would get home in this situation if both vehicles are unavailable, tho in all likelihood being a hospital employee (social worker, not a doctor or nurse) she could be considered essential personnel in a situation like that and have to stay anyway. Her hospital runs drills for situations where mass casualties are brought to the hospital, tho I am fairly certain nothing comparing to one of this magnitude.

Originally Posted By: Blast
How do you get home?

- Hopefully either DW’s vehicle or mine has survived but as mentioned before it is only 13 miles and we could make it on foot. But this reminds me DW and I need to agree on a meeting place in this instance in case phone communications are down. Hopefully the GHB's have not been destroyed or made inaccessible either.

Originally Posted By: Blast
How do you find aid stations?

- Our home is only a mile from the volunteer fire dept for our area of the county; DW works at the local hospital; and the city fire dept is a mile or less from both our workplaces.

Originally Posted By: Blast
Will you be able to get news from radios?

- Assuming the local radio stations are able to broadcast (I would hope at least one of them would) we have a battery powered radio at the office, any number of car radios, and worst case a crank/solar powered radio at the house (after walking the 13 miles to get to it).

Originally Posted By: Blast
How can you tell if you've been exposed to radiation?

- Others have already mentioned the signs of radiation exposure and sickness, otherwise no way to tell. I can say that being in coal country here, the nearest nuclear power plants are hundreds of miles or more away so our potential exposure is almost nil.

Originally Posted By: Blast
What will happen if you are exposed to radiation?

- See above

Originally Posted By: Blast
When will "help" arrive (I know this is a potentially loaded question)?

- Hard to say for certain, but our community of county churches (those outside the city limits) have historically responded quickly to natural disasters. Our own church responded to 3 recent floods with water, bleach, cleaning supplies, food and other necessities within 24 hours. Of course we can’t assume all the area churches will be able to respond to a massive disaster that is being envisioned here so most likely within a week’s time.

Originally Posted By: Blast
What will aid stations be like?

- As others have said, crowded and chaotic … expect to fight for a bottle of water or a band-aid.

Originally Posted By: Blast
Can you drink water coming out from a broken water pipe?

- I wouldn’t take a chance … setting up a way to reliably filter and purify water will be a priority, after tending wounds and providing shelter of course. Water purification tabs will work short term, but long term will likely require boiling. Like many here, I hope to be in a situation to help rather than be another victim. Living outside of town means my home will hopefully be spared, but working in town means I have to consider the possibility of being caught in the destruction and the problems of communicating with DW (hopefully cell phone service will be available shortly after) and getting home and to DS. As stated above tho we are fortunate to have trusted neighbors and family members who could get to him in the event we could not. If something happens that they could not either then we would have MUCH bigger problems. frown
_________________________
Uh ... does anyone have a match?

Top
Page 4 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >



Moderator:  MartinFocazio, Tyber 
March
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online
0 registered (), 449 Guests and 12 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
GallenR, Jeebo, NicholasMarshall, Yadav, BenFoakes
5367 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Zippo Butane Inserts
by NAro
Today at 11:57 AM
What did you do today to prepare?
by dougwalkabout
03/27/24 11:21 PM
Question about a "Backyard Mutitool"
by Ren
03/17/24 01:00 AM
Problem in my WhatsApp configuration
by Chisel
03/09/24 01:55 PM
New Madrid Seismic Zone
by Jeanette_Isabelle
03/04/24 02:44 PM
EDC Reduction
by EchoingLaugh
03/02/24 04:12 PM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.