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#218955 - 03/13/11 02:49 PM Re: Your city just turned to rubble, what do you do? [Re: Blast]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
1. Get lucky. If you are lucky there is some time, travel to the most survivable place you can. If you are not so lucky there is little or no no time, be very rude and get into the most survivable spot you see.

Knowing where to go in reaction to different potential events; training and practice to develop situational awareness.

2. Get lucky. If you are lucky the event is one time and of limited duration, then initial survival is a long step toward long-term survival and bug-in preparation can be a life-saver. If you are not so lucky the event is repetitive in nature and of unknown but extended duration, then escaping the impact zone is probably your best step toward long-term survival and your bug-out preparation the focus for life-saving.

Knowing what to do in reaction to different potential events; training and practice plus being "equipped to survive."

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#218960 - 03/13/11 03:22 PM Re: Your city just turned to rubble, what do you do? [Re: Blast]
JBMat Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 745
Loc: NC
The answer to a lot of these questions starts with PPPPPP

Prior Planning Prevents Pi** Poor Performance

If you have an adequate plan in place you can find family - a rally point, or a preplanned route home to look on, with side sides designated. That's if cell phones are down. If cars can't be used, walk the route to meet along the way. Regardless, the first and best rally point is home.

Radio, yes, have 2 solar powered/battery/crank radios. Local radio was decent after hurricanes, no reason to think they wouldn't be the same after a disaster.

To be hit by radiation, it would take a nuclear strike, and I hope I didn't miss that.

There is a major Army base w/i 12 miles I have access to. I know I can find medical care there, worst case scenario. The local hospital is only 5 miles off. There are also several Urgent care type clinics fairly closeby.

Can I drink water coming from a broken pipe. Sure. Do I want to is the real question. And as I can tell our sewer pipes around here from the water pipes, half the danger is gone. Then I do have the means, mechanical and chemical, to purify water.

This disaster in Japan only underscores the need to be ready at all times. Do not depend on help arriving. BTDT, and it takes a couple days if not a week to get people deployed and stuff set up to supply "help". There may be stuff in place, but you have to get the bodies there to pass it out, and worst case, you have to ship in all the stuff.

What did gripe me most on one mission - able bodied men sat there and "supervised" the Army types putting up a tent. The clown that told us to "go faster, he needed shade" got a size 11 1/2 applied where it did me the most good. After that, they got the idea and helped.

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#218963 - 03/13/11 03:27 PM Re: Your city just turned to rubble, what do you do? [Re: Eugene]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Eugene
Originally Posted By: Blast
how do you find your family?

... having to fight the traffic to get home, our long term plans have come together. We are outside the outerbelt and live, work and go to school all within a couple mile radius... If we have to we can walk home, close enough.


this has been weighing on my mind recently. i'm currently looking to go back to work in the corporate world, and my best job prospects are in the big city, about 60kms away. i hesitate about that. i worry about getting stuck downtown, my son being stuck at school and me so far away.

my husband switched to a job close to home a couple of years ago, and now lives and works in the same small city, though it wouldn't be a short walk. my son just started at a school within walking distance of home. at least they are close.

i'm also skeptical of the downtown architecture. i've been working in a 2-story house for the past four years, and i'm rather found of that set-up. this is going to be an adjustment!
_________________________
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#218968 - 03/13/11 04:00 PM Re: Your city just turned to rubble, what do you do? [Re: bacpacjac]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
Originally Posted By: bacpacjac
Originally Posted By: Eugene
Originally Posted By: Blast
how do you find your family?

... having to fight the traffic to get home, our long term plans have come together. We are outside the outerbelt and live, work and go to school all within a couple mile radius... If we have to we can walk home, close enough.


this has been weighing on my mind recently. i'm currently looking to go back to work in the corporate world, and my best job prospects are in the big city, about 60kms away. i hesitate about that. i worry about getting stuck downtown, my son being stuck at school and me so far away.

my husband switched to a job close to home a couple of years ago, and now lives and works in the same small city, though it wouldn't be a short walk. my son just started at a school within walking distance of home. at least they are close.

i'm also skeptical of the downtown architecture. i've been working in a 2-story house for the past four years, and i'm rather found of that set-up. this is going to be an adjustment!


Our city the best jobs moved to the north size of town. We have several business offices for banks, health care and insurance providers, etc. Houses are expensive up here for their size but close to the jobs. Our families were all down on us for buying the house we did since it was 'only 1300 squ feet', we could have bought a much bigger house for less $ in this or that area.

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#218971 - 03/13/11 04:27 PM Re: Your city just turned to rubble, what do you do? [Re: Blast]
Eric Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Iowa

Lots of good questions - here is a cut at them (midwest centric).

How do you protect yourself from possible physical dangers (falling debris, fires, etc...)
Have a plan for the scenarios appropriate to your area. Know where the fire exits are, look for strong/weak points in the local structures. Running outside in an earthquake or tornado is an iffy proposition. Luckily the earthquake is a real low order of probability here.

How do you find your family?
Head home, then for the kids school. The wife and I have out of area contacts, the kids aren't quite up to that yet.

How do you get home?
Walk or drive - I live less than a mile from where I work. If the roads a unpassable I'll go cross country.

How do you find aid stations?
Aid stations tend to set up at the local fire stations and medical clinics. A couple of those are on the way home. Last major "disaster" around here they also setup in the Walmart parking lot (about 5 miles away). The national guard keeps a bunch of stuff about 15 miles away from me, near the local airport, also.

Will you be able to get news from radios?
Maybe - depends on the disaster. Local AM might have some info if available, regional AM is more likely (WHO carries a long, long way at full power).

How can you tell if you've been exposed to radiation?
No reliable method for me. Listen to radio and assess likelihood is best of bad choices. Giant flashes of light and mushroom clouds would also be a clue. Reality is I'm more worried about a "chemical" accident than radiation - like Anhydrous Ammonia.

What will happen if you are exposed to radiation?
Depends on how much and what kind. In general get out of the area and decontaminate (wash down) and drink lots of fluids to flush your system - Beer is great for this. For low doses, probably no short term effects, for higher doses expect some form of radiation sickness (at least nausea and weakness). With a really high dose set your affairs in order quickly (if possible).

When will "help" arrive (I know this is a potentially loaded question)?
Amateur help will arrive as soon as imminent danger is past, if not sooner (love the midwest for that). Local professionals will be swamped if there is widespread damage and injuries. Need to plan to support yourself (and your family) for at least 72 hrs and a week would be better.

What will aid stations be like?
Long lines, lots of unhappy people, lots of stress, no where near enough hands/supplies to help everyone.

Can you drink water coming out from a broken water pipe?
Yes - but should you? smile If the water system is compromised it is a risk unless you can filter it or treat it somehow. For the walk home I would avoid it. Once home I have access to filters, stoves and chemicals - assuming everything isn't part of the rubble.

Good questions to ponder.

-Eric
_________________________
You are never beaten until you admit it. - - General George S. Patton


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#218975 - 03/13/11 05:17 PM Re: Your city just turned to rubble, what do you do? [Re: Blast]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: USA
How do you protect yourself from possible physical dangers (falling debris, fires, etc...)

Get outdoors and away from tall buildings. At home that's the front yard or the back yard. At work there are parking lots.

How do you find your family?

One school is an easy walk and the other is a few miles away. If I were at work I'd rely on my wife to gather the children, decide whether to stay home or bug out, and execute the plan appropriately. Her parents live 40 miles away and mine about 1000, so I'd try to reach one or both to get messages if I couldn't communicate with her directly.

How do you get home?

If I'm in the city and I took the train, I'll take the train if I can and hoof it if I can't. That would be two or three days of walking. I'd buy a bicycle if I could. Unfortunately there's no place for me to store a bicycle at work.

How do you find aid stations?

I carry an FAK at all times and hopefully I'd be rendering aid rather than receiving it. Otherwise I'd look for a fire station or a hospital.

Will you be able to get news from radios?

I've been looking for a small and inexpensive FM radio to add to my tier 2 (laptop bag) EDC. If I have my car kit there's a shortwave receiver there.

How can you tell if you've been exposed to radiation?

If you have signs of radiation sickness (nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, headache, fever, dizziness, disorientation, weakness, fatigue, hair loss) shortly after suspected exposure, you're probably screwed. In the longer term hopefully you'll have access to doctors.

What will happen if you are exposed to radiation?

Decontaminate as best you can by stripping off clothes and washing thoroughly with plenty of water.

When will "help" arrive (I know this is a potentially loaded question)?

As soon as I get my gear and meet up with the rest of my team. I expect the CERT I belong to will be overwhelmed shortly after the professional first responders, but we'll do the best we can.

What will aid stations be like?

Busy. Grim. Chaotic.

Can you drink water coming out from a broken water pipe?

If you have to. I don't have the gear to remove radioactive contamination from water, but other more common hazards I'm well-equipped to handle.

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#218986 - 03/13/11 06:24 PM Re: Your city just turned to rubble, what do you do? [Re: Blast]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
Already working on it here in Los Angeles. Busy, busy! I've got a LOT to do. This whole Japan disaster reminded me that I need to get my head down and really get my family prepared to go through this stuff.

Today I am working on increasing our volume of stored fresh water, and some containers for storing food. These all need to be rat-proof. Yesterday i went completely through my survival kit, added some extra stuff, and packed it all into my rucksack and put that in the back of my pickup truck (so it goes wherever I go). I also made a makeshift firepit in our backyard, so we can burn wood as one option for heating water and cooking food.

I sent some questions in (by email) to knowledgeable scientists about tsunami risks in So. California. When I get answers I will post them here. I welcome all insights about possible assessments for big earthquakes on the West Coast.

other Pete

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#218991 - 03/13/11 06:44 PM Re: Your city just turned to rubble, what do you do? [Re: Blast]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2946
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
Originally Posted By: Blast
How do you protect yourself from possible physical dangers (falling debris, fires, etc...)

That was addressed in other threads.

Originally Posted By: Blast
How do you find your family?

Return to Base [home] and use whatever communications systems still operational even if it's just the Internet.

Originally Posted By: Blast
How do you get home?

That was addressed in other threads.

Originally Posted By: Blast
How do you find aid stations?

I'm a few blocks away from the nearest fire station, about a mile from the police station, a couple of miles from the medical district, there are medical clinics on almost every block on Wheatland Rd., my pharmacy is three blocks north of the police station, the church is well stocked in first aid kits. If I am at work, I'm even closer (except for the fire station). I think I'm covered.

Originally Posted By: Blast
Will you be able to get news from radios?

Every car has a radio and I have a battery-powered radio at home.

Originally Posted By: Blast
How can you tell if you've been exposed to radiation?

What will happen if you are exposed to radiation?

I am so far away from the nearest nuclear power plant that a nuclear bomb would be considered a greater threat.

Originally Posted By: Blast
When will "help" arrive (I know this is a potentially loaded question)?

If the mountain will not come to Mahomet, Mahomet must go to the mountain.

Originally Posted By: Blast
What will aid stations be like?

It would be anything from a first aid kit to the emergency room at the hospital.

Originally Posted By: Blast
Can you drink water coming out from a broken water pipe?

Given where I live, the most likely issue would be the water being turned off.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday

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#218993 - 03/13/11 06:57 PM Re: Your city just turned to rubble, what do you do? [Re: Pete]
Richlacal Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 778
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
You have to pay attention to History,Think Pre-Man!Regardless of what you hear from The many Authorities of Govt,Health,etc.,Take a Good look at the soil in your Location,Have you found Seashells?Yes? Why? I'm on a 500 ft hill,Above the rest of the city,what the hay?This soil came from somewhere else,Right? Wrong! There are seashells on top of Mount Baldy,in fact there are seashells on top of All Our Mountain Ranges,Why? Because the Ocean was there!Fact: L.A. Basin is just that,A Basin,Such as:Water in,Water out,Water in,Water out,etc.!Who is The Authority to say,That isn't going to happen Again?Just because humans are here,doesn't Mean Jack!That said,Make the best of it!

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#219003 - 03/13/11 08:24 PM Re: Your city just turned to rubble, what do you do? [Re: Blast]
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
> Some common questions:
>SNIP<

I'm happy to say all this is addressed in our CERT training, so my wife and I have plans on getting back together if we are separated; ham radios with set frequencies for communications; we _are_ a first aid station, and we're around the corner from our fire department but we don't expect much from them -- they'll be handling big events like fires and structural failures; lots of AM/FM radios with lots of batteries, along with ham radios with memories set to the sheriff's repeaters in local counties; water filters; food; clothing; and so on.

We don't expect aid for at least a week after a big quake; we're prepared for a month with nothing but what we've got at home. We don't expect aid stations, hospitals, nor nothing. I wouldn't say I'm _prepared_ for it, but we've got the gear to survive homeless for a month, including food, water, shelter, clothes, and first aid. We're trained and prepared for light search and rescue. We can report conditions to the sheriff's office over our ham radios, meaning if we do have a raging fire or the apartments across the street have collapsed on dozens of people, we can let them know and maybe get some help.

The major issue is major injury. If we suffer broken bones or worse, there's not much help for us and not much hope for being helpful at all. We're then victims just like everyone else. All the plans go out the window. We all assume it's those other poor victims who'll be crushed or trapped, not us.

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