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#217403 - 02/17/11 10:12 PM Re: Hypothermia Kit [Re: dweste]
PureSurvival Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/09
Posts: 149
Loc: UK
Not really Ann it would need to be of a low temperature reading type and the only effective way if taking a temperature from a hypothermic person is by inserting the thermometer at least 8 inches up the casualties bum.

A normal thermometer to see what the ambient air temp may be useful but it will not give any warning of likely hypothermia.

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#217422 - 02/18/11 02:16 AM Re: Hypothermia Kit [Re: paramedicpete]
njs Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 41
Loc: Colorado

"Sorry to have to disagree guys, but if you have pulseless patient, you need to perform CPR which includes chest compressions..."

I won't go into detail about what I mean by "cold" but the specific issue is the ability to actually determine if the patient is in fact without a pulse. On very cold patients this can be difficult to determine and I was taught by two physicians in Alaska who are authorities on cold injuries/illenss not to perform chest compressions on a "frozen" patient. This is not the same as a pulseless patient.

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#217426 - 02/18/11 02:58 AM Re: Hypothermia Kit [Re: dweste]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Here's an interesting list of symptoms of Stage 1, 2 and 3 hypothermia: http://www.jonesactlaw.com/library/hypothermia-at-sea-a-major-risk-for-maritime-workers.cfm Yes, it's from a law firm... think they can be trusted?

The touching-thumb-to-little-finger is the simplest way to determine if someone is becoming hypothermic. If you're traveling with people you don't know reasonably well (or at all), and ask someone if they're too cold and they say they're all right, it's a reasonable request to ask them to prove it this way. It isn't like you're asking them to disrobe so you can stick an 8" needle/thermometer into their liver.

It seems to me that if you think someone is hypothermic, they probably are. You'll have to use your own judgment, not that of the victim.

Sue

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#217441 - 02/18/11 01:19 PM Re: Hypothermia Kit [Re: PureSurvival]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
This probably more than what you want to do, but for rescue teams transporting and treating hypothermic patients, it is an improvised low cost option. Ahead of time, you take an indoor/outdoor thermometer, which will read lower temperatures and generally has a probe on a 2-3 foot wire, coat the probe with silicon sealer which is allowed to cure thoroughly. When needed for use, the probe is coated with a lubricant and inserted into the rectum. The meter potion can be left outside of the hypothermic wrap for ongoing monitoring.

Pete


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#217455 - 02/18/11 04:25 PM Re: Hypothermia Kit [Re: njs]
PureSurvival Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/09
Posts: 149
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: njs

"Sorry to have to disagree guys, but if you have pulseless patient, you need to perform CPR which includes chest compressions..."

I won't go into detail about what I mean by "cold" but the specific issue is the ability to actually determine if the patient is in fact without a pulse. On very cold patients this can be difficult to determine and I was taught by two physicians in Alaska who are authorities on cold injuries/illenss not to perform chest compressions on a "frozen" patient. This is not the same as a pulseless patient.



I agree with you njs. CPR is given to a normothermal person when they are not breathing normally. The present protocols do not take into account of pulse at all. So chest compressions are given when ever there is not a normal breath.

In a hypothermic person if they are breathing then we can assume their heart is beating so you can assist with breaths but not give chest compressions.

If there is no pulse and the heart has stopped beating then it is very doubtful if CPR would be any help anyway.

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#217456 - 02/18/11 04:32 PM Re: Hypothermia Kit [Re: paramedicpete]
PureSurvival Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/09
Posts: 149
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: paramedicpete
This probably more than what you want to do, but for rescue teams transporting and treating hypothermic patients, it is an improvised low cost option. Ahead of time, you take an indoor/outdoor thermometer, which will read lower temperatures and generally has a probe on a 2-3 foot wire, coat the probe with silicon sealer which is allowed to cure thoroughly. When need for use, the probe is coated with a lubricant and inserted into the rectum. The meter potion can be left outside of the hypothermic wrap for ongoing monitoring.

Pete



Thanks for that Pete, that is an interesting solution that I have not come across before.

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#217457 - 02/18/11 04:47 PM Re: Hypothermia Kit [Re: Susan]
PureSurvival Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/09
Posts: 149
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Susan
Here's an interesting list of symptoms of Stage 1, 2 and 3 hypothermia: http://www.jonesactlaw.com/library/hypothermia-at-sea-a-major-risk-for-maritime-workers.cfm Yes, it's from a law firm... think they can be trusted?

Sue


I am sorry Sue but there listed treatment is very lacking and if you have a severely hypothermic person you will be putting them at further risk and could leave you open to prosecution if you followed their advise.

You may be covered by the good Samaritans laws in the states. A law company can not be substituted by doing a good First Aid course.


Edited by PureSurvival (02/18/11 04:51 PM)

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#217500 - 02/19/11 01:15 AM Re: Hypothermia Kit [Re: PureSurvival]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
I wasn't interested much in their treatment, just the symptoms of the various stages of hypothermia.

Sue

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#217859 - 02/23/11 08:48 AM Re: Hypothermia Kit [Re: Susan]
BorkBorkBork Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 70
Loc: Sweden
In Norway (as I am sure, they do elsewhere) they are working a lot with how to treat hypothermia and not even the medical profession are clear on how to treat it since the treatmeant actually varies between patients. There is not one universal method of treating hypothermia.

An small excerpt from a statement made here: http://www.ntnu.no/gemini/2011-01/7.htm


"-So far, the results show that it is essential that the rescuers wrap the patients in a vapor barrier before they are being wrapped in blankets. The explanation is that since the cooled patients often are wet, you lose a great deal of body heat to the blankets and the environment through evaporation, rather than remain in the body."
_________________________
Stay warm out there !

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#218020 - 02/26/11 03:24 PM Re: Hypothermia Kit [Re: dweste]
ILBob Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Northern IL
I am not so sure about the advice to give sugar water to hypothermia victims. There is some pretty compelling reasons that practice might be counterproductive that I have seen elsewhere.

Like a lot of conventional wisdom type things, that advice may be based mostly on what people have been doing rather than what might work better.

I am more inclined to calories from fat than from sugar in such a case.

I have also seen some interesting speculations that drinking hot beverages might not be an especially good idea either.

On the bright side, most people who are in a position to actually eat or drink anything at all are probably not so far along in the hypothermia cycle that it makes all that much difference.
_________________________
Warning - I am not an expert on anything having to do with this forum, but that won't stop me from saying what I think. smile

Bob

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