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#216707 - 02/09/11 03:44 AM Re: Rebuilding Society [Re: Blast]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1578
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: Blast
Now are actually trying to rebuild civilization or just go on a quest for some object? The two require much different tool sets. The best way to rebuild society is through agriculture...followed quickly by making alcohol. Some books on farming and animal care would be most welcome. The firefox books and Diary of an Early American Boy or other books of self sufficiency come to mind.

Though the role play game focuses on the quest, I want to equip my player-character for life after the quest.

When my player-character arrives in 2050, she will see that her city has reverted back to the agricultural industry. Many years ago, my city was a small farming community. Also, I have researched what can be grown in this area: Cotton, peanuts, soybeans, grains (corn, wheat and oats), yams, spinach, cabbage and pecan trees. The game master says alcohol is also made.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#216712 - 02/09/11 04:31 AM Re: Rebuilding Society [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Eric Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Iowa
Hmmm. A lot of what is possible/available will depend on the nature of the apocalyptic event, the local infrastructure and how the locals responded. I live in the midwest and we have a lot of coal fired/water cooled power plants around here. Assuming they survived (i.e. they weren't bombed) they could easily be fueled by local coal deposits- high sulfur content but it would burn well and the old mines are pretty close to the power plants. The machine shop at the plant (and some local machine shops) would be good not only for maintaining the turbines for a while but for "building down" to an early tech level that would be easier to maintain.

Agriculture is pretty similar if you have a good source of power (coal, hydro) you can make alcohol and convert older farm equipment to use it. Not dropping all the way back to horse drawn plows but maybe to something like Farmall H or Ford 8N (pre computer controlled engines).

General implications of this is you could probably have pretty decent standard of living in your 2050 world but it might look a bit like a distorted version of the 1930's or maybe later. Knowledge would be available or easily recreated since we have a solid tech/science starting point and know what the end result looks like.

Sounds interesting.

- Eric
_________________________
You are never beaten until you admit it. - - General George S. Patton


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#216723 - 02/09/11 01:57 PM Re: Rebuilding Society [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3558
Loc: Spring, Texas
Quote:
When my player-character arrives in 2050, she will see that her city has reverted back to the agricultural industry. Many years ago, my city was a small farming community. Also, I have researched what can be grown in this area: Cotton, peanuts, soybeans, grains (corn, wheat and oats), yams, spinach, cabbage and pecan trees. The game master says alcohol is also made.


I'm assuming that by "rebuilding civilization" you mean increase the technology level above its current in-game level. What aspect of technology? Medicine, power, weapons...? "All of the above" would be a pretty difficult task using stuff from a backpack.

This might help, though:
http://wtfoodge.com/lets-say-youve-gone-back-in-time/

-Blast
_________________________
Blogging the Borderlands
Wild Edibles Blog
I miss OBG.

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#216726 - 02/09/11 02:16 PM Re: Rebuilding Society [Re: Eric]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1578
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: Eric
Agriculture is pretty similar if you have a good source of power (coal, hydro) you can make alcohol and convert older farm equipment to use it. Not dropping all the way back to horse drawn plows but maybe to something like Farmall H or Ford 8N (pre computer controlled engines).

General implications of this is you could probably have pretty decent standard of living in your 2050 world but it might look a bit like a distorted version of the 1930's or maybe later.

It would look like the 19th century with 20th and early 21st century technology still around though quite old at this point.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#216729 - 02/09/11 02:47 PM Re: Rebuilding Society [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 413
Loc: UK
Not really understanding this.
The 40 year leap ahead is not significant. Someone from 1971 who came to today wouldn't be a caveman.
And unless she is rich now and leaves stuff in her room or hidden somewhere (a room unchanged for 40 years? why not let her find a unicorn while you are at it). I don't see what she owns mattering that much either. Unless all the shops are empty in the future. But that is the signifcant matter. not the time leap.
Just like we'd say to 1971 hiker 'look at these great multi tools we have now'. They'll have better stuff in 2050. Though not necessarily much better. Down, wool, armalites, leather, the list of stuff that hasn't been improved on is endless.
Except for stuff degrading. This would be the same scenario if she was prepared now for apocalypse and her family weren't.
What every survivalist site is about.
qjs

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#216732 - 02/09/11 03:01 PM Re: Rebuilding Society [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2797
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle
The emergency blanket you mentioned is included in the medical kit I am considering.


Okay. Consider that the absolute minimum to be carried on one's person.

Quote:
The Mk2 may be bigger than what I may be comfortable with. The Mk3 is a better slicer and slightly less noticeable than the Mk2.


The Bigger Is Better Principle probably applies here, and a Mk2 should survive more physical abuse. The Mk3 will survive more lack-of-care (being an S30V blade); that's a significant issue to consider.

Quote:
I have given a lot of thought to a multi tool but given the other tools I already have, the RSK Mk3 and the EMT sheers in the medical kit, do I need additional tools? If so, I need to find a way to determine which is the best multi tool for this situation.


Blast covered this well. An LM Wave with bit kit is incredibly versatile, but there are other excellent choices.

Quote:
My friend Arik is playing a wester movie type gunslinger in the role play game, another player-character is a Tai Chi master (a form of martial art which can be lethal when practiced for many years) and there will be other player-characters who are armed whom Jeanette will be with.


They'll be with you all the time? You'll never be in peril of being overrun? In RPG terms I would never consider an unarmed character for the kind of game you're playing.

Quote:
The flashlight you suggested certainly lasts much longer. The PICO Lite is tiny, which is an advantage and, at $10, throwing it away is no big deal after its advertised fifteen-hour runtime.


Tiny is good, but bright and longer lasting is better, in my book.

Quote:
A pack would depend on how far along she is in preparing for her scheduled trip which got interrupted. As for the hydration bladder, I don't believe it would be needed since the party Jeanette is with would have things like a pot for boiling water. The bottled water is to sustain her until Jeanette finds out where she is (she will be transported within in her city though it would look foreign to her) and those she knows which should not take long. After the bottle of water is empty, it can be used to hold water which has been purified.


The means to carry water for long trips could be very important.

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#216733 - 02/09/11 03:13 PM Re: Rebuilding Society [Re: quick_joey_small]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 5999
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: quick_joey_small

The 40 year leap ahead is not significant. Someone from 1971 who came to today wouldn't be a caveman.


Thank you. I come from 1971 (and earlier) and I sure ain't no caveman. Now, just where did I put my club and loincloth?

I wonder about the linear premise of "rebuilding society." It doesn't seem to fit the actual events that have occurred when societies have collapsed. Consider the Maya collapse or the retrenchment of Pueblo groups in the American Southwest. The large centers were abandoned and the common folk kept on farming, focusing on workable solutions that allowed life to continue.

But then, this is fantasy, right? not actual events.

Personally, I would not want to go forward into the future without my bicycle - take lots of spare tubes, tires, and patches.


Edited by hikermor (02/09/11 03:16 PM)
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#216734 - 02/09/11 03:34 PM Re: Rebuilding Society [Re: Blast]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1578
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: Blast
I'm assuming that by "rebuilding civilization" you mean increase the technology level above its current in-game level. What aspect of technology? Medicine, power, weapons...? "All of the above" would be a pretty difficult task using stuff from a backpack.

There are two things I consider when choosing gear. What does my player-character need for the trek and what does she need for her life after the trek? The medical kit, Pocket Survival Pack, RSK Mk3 and PICO Lite are for the trek. The remaining items in the medical kit, the RSK Mk3 and the Tuf-Cloth are for her life after the trek. The bottle of water is to sustain her until she figures out where she is.

By "rebuilding society" I mean society returning to some form of normality. The purpose of selecting the right gear and anything else not gear related (skills, knowledge, etcetera) is to sustain my player-character until society has returned to some form of normality. Technology is a tool in rebuilding society. We certainly do not need weapons. In a post apocalyptic world everybody, and their grandmother, has weapons. The city has a functioning power plant. What is lacking is medical technology which is why I chose the role of a Wilderness EMT for my player-character. The city has a hospital that's open but any equipment still working is at least forty-years-old.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#216735 - 02/09/11 03:47 PM Re: Rebuilding Society [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
I am unclear as to how long post apocalyptic event she is being reintroduced. If, as you indicate the community has returned to an agriculturally based society, there would seem to be some degree of stability, not overly chaotic as other parts of your premise states.

As to the equipment she is carrying. I see no significant advantage to her survival if as you state low-tech items (home, pots, etc.) are still available. Most of the items she is carrying will only provide temporary relief. For example her flashlight, if she uses it for 1 hour per night and it last say 30 days, how is that really providing for the rebuilding of society, which is a much more long term goal. Her EMT-Wildernesses status would only seem to provide only a minor advantage, since the community still seems to be fairly functional.

I must confess that I find the entire scenario to be somewhat contradictory and confusing.

Pete

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#216736 - 02/09/11 03:53 PM Re: Rebuilding Society [Re: NightHiker]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1578
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: NightHiker
I'm curious as to how are you transported to the future? Is it an instantaneous event or is it the result of a suspended animation/cryogenic type situation? The reason I ask is as unimogbert pointed out, plastics and other material can be expected to degrade over time whereas an instant transport they will still be good. Having a backpack full of goodies with you when you stumble through a "temporal wormhole" would be nice.

It will be instantaneous so that everything my player-character has on her is still good.

Originally Posted By: NightHiker
Get your character in really good physical condition and any type of martial arts training would be a definite plus. It doesnt necessairly mean you need to take a SEAL H2H course but something along the lines of kickboxing or Tae-Bo at your local health club would be a good idea. They're great for cardiovascular conditioning and also develop reflexive personal defensive techniques.

That's a good idea. One of my player-character's friends, played by one of my friends, is a Tai Chi master. My player-character learning from her would be too good an opportunity to pass up.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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