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#215910 - 01/29/11 07:07 PM Butane canister cold weather performance?
jzmtl Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/18/10
Posts: 530
Loc: Montreal Canada
So which brand of butane canister has the best cold weather performance?

I can buy jetboil, primus and MSR brand canisters in local market. Primus is advertised as mix of butane, isobutane and propane. MSR is isobutane and propane. Jetboil doesn't say.

Does anyone has any experience with any of these in cold temperature, say around -10 to -20 C? (that's -4 to 14 F for imperial users).

(yes I know liquid fuel is best for cold, but for this particular instance they are not suitable)


Edited by jzmtl (01/29/11 07:41 PM)

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#215911 - 01/29/11 07:19 PM Re: Butane canister cold weather performance? [Re: jzmtl]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
When it's in the 30s and 40s I can tell butane is cold I can't imagine -20C.
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#215913 - 01/29/11 07:59 PM Re: Butane canister cold weather performance? [Re: jzmtl]
speedemon Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/13/10
Posts: 98
At that temperature range, you're going to have to rely on "tricks" to get them to work. Warming the canister in your coat helps alot. Another trick is to set the canister in dish filled with water when you go to use the stove (helps keep it from cooling off when you use it in freezing weather).

As for the fuel mix, you don't want anything but isobutane and propane. Im pretty sure that MSR has the most propane compared to the rest (there might be another one out there that's better, but it isn't in any of the stores around here so I can't remember).

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#215914 - 01/29/11 08:13 PM Re: Butane canister cold weather performance? [Re: speedemon]
jzmtl Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/18/10
Posts: 530
Loc: Montreal Canada
Thanks. Now I'm thinking maybe butane canister isn't the best option here.

The intend of this kit is to have a 225g canister inside a small cup/pot, and have with me on trips that fire/boiling isn't planned, for just in case situations.

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#215915 - 01/29/11 08:38 PM Re: Butane canister cold weather performance? [Re: jzmtl]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
So which brand of butane canister has the best cold weather performance?

I can buy jetboil, primus and MSR brand canisters in local market. Primus is advertised as mix of butane, isobutane and propane. MSR is isobutane and propane. Jetboil doesn't say.


Depends on the stove, many stoves such as Primus EtaPacklite, Primus Himalaya Omnifuel, Gosystems 2000 gas burner adapter (designed for Trangia 27s and 25s, Esbit Alcohol stove) and others will quite readily burn the butane and propane from any of the above canisters if using liquid feed operation.



Inverting the canister in the above photo will work down to similar temperatures as the Coleman Powermax canisters (specifically designed for liquid feed operation) @ around -20C, i.e. similar temperatures to liquid coleman white gas fueled stoves . The Esbit stove + Gosystems 2000 will for example boil a cup of water (250ml) in around 45 seconds.

A reusable chemical hand warmer can be used underneath a canister to warm it up under extreme conditions. To reuse the hand warmer just reactivate using some of the cannister fuel by some additional boiling water when your finished with the stove for the next time it is used.




Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (01/29/11 08:44 PM)

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#215917 - 01/29/11 09:00 PM Re: Butane canister cold weather performance? [Re: jzmtl]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I would consider an alcohol stove for moderate conditions (above freezing). They can be obscenely light. Adapters are available that will get alcohol stoves functioning in really cold conditions, but then the stove of choice would be a liquid gas type - good old Svea or MSR units shine when it is below zero (F). Liquid gas stoves are relatively heavy, but that is acceptable when a dependable stove could be crucial.
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#215932 - 01/30/11 12:27 AM Re: Butane canister cold weather performance? [Re: jzmtl]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: jzmtl
So which brand of butane canister has the best cold weather performance?

I can buy jetboil, primus and MSR brand canisters in local market. Primus is advertised as mix of butane, isobutane and propane. MSR is isobutane and propane. Jetboil doesn't say.

Does anyone has any experience with any of these in cold temperature, say around -10 to -20 C? (that's -4 to 14 F for imperial users).

(yes I know liquid fuel is best for cold, but for this particular instance they are not suitable)
The answer is "nobody knows". Well, not precisely anyway. Most of the canister manufacturers won't publish exact percentages.

From what I've read, MSR is generally a good one for colder weather. Coleman and Snow Peak less so.

HOWEVER, if you're talking about temps below 15F, then forget any brand of canister with an upright canister stove. If, as one poster suggested, you're willing to buy a more specialized gas stove, one with a remote tank (i.e. the burner doesn't connect directly to the tank but rather is connected remotely via a fuel hose) and a pre-heat loop, you can go colder, at least down to 0F, maybe down to -5F. If you saw my post on the Coleman Xtreme, that's worth looking into. The Coleman Xtreme uses a higher propane content fuel and is rated down -4F, although I've seen posts of people using it down to -10F.

If you're thinking of just using a regular canister stove and just getting a better brand of gas, for those temperatures that won't work. You have to either get a specialized gas stove or switch to liquid fuel.

Liquid fuel, by the way, will work at far lower temperatures than any blended fuel gas stove. Arctic/Antarctic expeditions to this day use liquid fueled stoves. If you're heading out in really seriously low temps, liquid fuel is the way to go.

HJ
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#215943 - 01/30/11 02:45 AM Re: Butane canister cold weather performance? [Re: jzmtl]
jzmtl Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/18/10
Posts: 530
Loc: Montreal Canada
I was hoping to stay as compact as possible. If I take a remote feed gas stove I might as well take my Primus omnifuel with liquid fuel.

Thanks for the replies, seems I'll have to look at some other options for cold weather compact stove, maybe solid fuel tabs?

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#215945 - 01/30/11 03:34 AM Re: Butane canister cold weather performance? [Re: jzmtl]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
The very traditional SVEA 123 and similar models are quite compact, having about the same profile as a canister stove like the Pocket Rocket. Due to the brass tank, they are heavier, but you have a compact unit with its own self contained fuel supply. You will need a pot support and windscreen. Carry additional fuel in a separate container if you wish.

I have never tried Esbit tablets in really cold weather; I am a bit skeptical about their value in that situation.
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#215951 - 01/30/11 05:20 AM Re: Butane canister cold weather performance? [Re: jzmtl]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA
for the temps that you are talking about,10 or so below F i don't think you will find any off the shelf Gaz stove that would work without adding heat exchange gizmos to warm the fuel.i have see Gaz stoves that had a heavy wire wrapped around the cart that was exposed to the flame at one end and warmed the cart to keep the fuel working plus a cozy of some sort around and under it.

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