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#215787 - 01/27/11 10:35 PM Re: First-Aid Kits Saved Lives At Tucson Massacre [Re: Dagny]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
The more important things are 1) understanding of why these tools work and 2) training in using the tools, along with improvisation. QuikClot is sexy and all but if you don't appreciate what led up to its development, you are missing out.

For those who don't know, this is all rooted in "Tactical Combat Casualty Care" or TC3. Google it and read to your heart's content. All the info is open source. Those with a little fortitude will seek out TC3-centric training. There is plenty of it out there now available to civilans.

If you think the local EMTs and paramedics are the go-to people for this, you are wrong. I love EMTs, I am one, and I've worked in the business for years but they are NOT the subject matter experts on dealing with active arterial bleeds due to penetrating trauma when under fire.

Learn WHY to pack a bleed, then HOW, then learn when QC is appropriate. Tourniquets are superb, the old wives' tales about them have been slain, but learn to use a "stick and a rag", then graduate to a CAT or SOFTT-Wide.

Skipping the simpler methods cheats you out of deeper understanding and appreciation. It's like school kids using a calculator before they learn long division. Doing it manually makes you really appreciate the calculator and use it more effectively, plus some day there won't be a calculator when you need one.

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#215796 - 01/28/11 02:18 AM Re: First-Aid Kits Saved Lives At Tucson Massacre [Re: Tyber]
Ann Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 42
Loc: Western Washington
There are some good points here about the quick clot. I agree that it's faster and often better to just apply pressure with whatever's on hand in that split second.

However, just a quick note--certain drugs and medical conditions can cause the blood to not clot so easily, turning what would otherwise be manageable bleeding into a real problem. I'm keeping some on hand mainly just for convenience, as it's annoying when a minor wound won't stop bleeding. I doubt I'd actually use it in a serious crisis, I think I'd just maintain pressure until help arrives; I wouldn't want to let up the pressure even for a moment to use the quickclot. There could also be other problems such as misapplying it and confusing the EMTs resulting in some delays.

So even as someone who has a good reason to keep this stuff on hand I'm not expecting to use it for excessive bleeding. It seems like an excellent product, but it should be used with discretion.

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#215801 - 01/28/11 03:09 AM Re: First-Aid Kits Saved Lives At Tucson Massacre [Re: ]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
Thankfully a huge intramuscular shot of Vitamin K jacks up your clotting factors rickety-tick and the Paramedics carry it.


Are you saying that is a generally true thing? Because I can assure you that it is not. EMS protocols vary widely by state and even by county. We use drugs in my county that EMS in the next county doesn't use, and vice versa.

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#215825 - 01/28/11 02:13 PM Re: First-Aid Kits Saved Lives At Tucson Massacre [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
Quote:
Are you saying that is a generally true thing? Because I can assure you that it is not. EMS protocols vary widely by state and even by county. We use drugs in my county that EMS in the next county doesn't use, and vice versa.


We don't carry Vit. K.

Pete

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#215830 - 01/28/11 03:26 PM Re: First-Aid Kits Saved Lives At Tucson Massacre [Re: ]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
Ann has a point. I've seen clotting agents do ZERO against people who are on any kind of blood thinning medication.

This is one of the selling points of Celox--which doesn't utilize your body's normal clotting process. Although in absolute terms, I have no idea how Celox stacks up against QC for high volume arterial bleeds, so it may not be the best for a trauma blow-out kit.

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#215834 - 01/28/11 04:24 PM Re: First-Aid Kits Saved Lives At Tucson Massacre [Re: Arney]
Ann Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 42
Loc: Western Washington
Originally Posted By: Arney
Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
Ann has a point. I've seen clotting agents do ZERO against people who are on any kind of blood thinning medication.

This is one of the selling points of Celox--which doesn't utilize your body's normal clotting process. Although in absolute terms, I have no idea how Celox stacks up against QC for high volume arterial bleeds, so it may not be the best for a trauma blow-out kit.


You're right, I was getting quick clot and celox mixed up. According to their website, Celox does not rely on the body's clotting factors, it uses chitosan which, upon contact with blood, "swells, gels, and sticks together" forming an artificial clot. So it should work exactly the same on good clotting blood as it does on blood that doesn't clot well.

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