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#213802 - 12/29/10 03:31 AM Re: Crossing a small flooded river in winter [Re: dweste]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
Stay put or find another way across wink

I've done a lot of fast water crossings, tethering, and floatings... Most of it in less than 4' of water and even at that depth it's enough to pull you away with ease, at 15' deep and 50' across you need a boat or a tight line going across and good upper body strength.

In as little as 2' fast moving water and a tether to another person becomes useless, once your footing (or grip) is lost you will pull the tethered person with you as you float down stream.

Being tethered to anything solid in fast moving water by yourself is extremely dangerous. You slip, and now you can't get your footing but your connected and now all the water is going around you as your body is held against rapid water movement... think of drowning in seconds. IMHO tethering requires 2 people minimum, ideally a higher elevation to tether too, thick rope, a knife with each person involved.

Tiny cord (550) is TERRIBLE for a tether. You are reliant upon it being hooked up / tied to you and you can not `pull it` to reposition safely. Thicker is not only better for strength but for gripping too.

A few years ago I was in some rapids in a concrete mixing container (large black tub about size of pickup bed) just to see how it handled the rapids, fast moving water, and just fun wink About half way through it was thrown about so much, and had taken on so much water it sank (I had a buoy tied to it on a long rope for retrieval). I had a life vest on and floated out of the fast water hanging on to the buoy.

15' deep.
50' across.
Fast water.

W/out a proper fast moving water craft or experience crossing water even a kayak, canoe, etc can be deadly.
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#213803 - 12/29/10 03:50 AM Re: Crossing a small flooded river in winter [Re: dweste]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
An interesting problem.

In normal situations your best shot is to put off crossing and continue on until you come across a bridge, viable ford or a boat. In the highly unlikely situation where survival on this bank is essentially zero and for some reason there is no time to explore to find a more favorable crossing site (zombies and/or velociraptors?) there are ways to slant the odds more in your favor and improving upon the low odds 'jump in and swim like hell' strategy.

First thought would be to make a boat, actually more of a float. The classic field expedient float is an option that allows exploitation of a lot of materials common to a lot of locations. The basics of building the float come down to using any water resistant sheet goods wrapped around materials that float or that can maintain an air space.

In one version you use branches, vines, sticks, to form a 'doughnut', more of a large wreath. Your gear gets stuffed into the center. Then the assembly is wrapped in sheet goods you have at hand. Ponchos and tarps are good but a tent, ground cloth, rain-wear can also be used. If you have two tarps/ponchos use the best one for the bottom and lash over the top. Use the second over the top to help keep air in and splashed water out.

If you have sufficient volume with pack/s or floats you have or create the doughnut frame of light brush can be eliminated. You are going to have to be creative. Stuff sacks can be filled with grass, leaves or sticks to create a float. Same with the legs of a rain-suit. Canteens, water bags and other containers can be emptied Make sure you still have some water if the river water in undrinkable.

The idea is not to produce an actual boat but to manufacture a float that will be buoyant enough to keep most of your body out of the water for the duration of the crossing and stable enough that you can concentrate of paddling and avoiding any large debris coming at you instead of balancing.

The second technique that comes to mind is to 'dress for success' A cold-water rated dry suit with gloves, booties, mask, and fins would be ideal. A thick wet suit a second choice. And I'm quite sure everyone reading this carries one, and a spare, in their hip pocket at all times.

Two different thoughts come up. First is the 'go naked and fast' method. If you can get across fast this is an option. The idea is that whatever you wear is going to get heavy, wet, lose the ability to act as insulation if worn. If you go nude the clothing might be kept dry and you can bundle up once across.

The other way would be to try to create a field expedient dry or wet suit. Wool and fleece drain well and once drained they retain a fair amount of insulation value. A rain-suit might be tightened up to keep most of the water out temporarily and insulation underneath might stay dry. The down side here is air trapped in your pants might keep your head under water and any water that gets in will weigh you down which could make getting out of the water slower and more difficult. Time in the river has to be minimized.

Okay, you have your float and you are dressed for the dance. How are you going to get you and the float across the river? Two things that come to mind are paddling and using the differences in water flow around a bend and pendulum effect to propel you across. A paddle might be improvised with a flat piece of wood or a piece of sturdy cloth lashed to a forked piece of wood.

The pendulum effect uses a long piece of line tied upstream to the side you are on and the natural tendency of the raft, held against the flow to move toward the faster moving water, to get you across on a bend. This method is used by some commercial ferrymen in remote areas. They use the pendulum effect to go one way and winch back the line to go the other. I'd make sure there was a fast way of disconnecting the line if the pendulum gets you most of the way there and you need to paddle the last bit or if you are being overtaken by a large object caught in the flow.

I would also think about having some light gloves and shoes to prevent damage on rocks and debris when landing and fending off. Something that leaves my regular boots dry and something that won't fill with water and drag me down. Swim booties, and light but tough synthetic work gloves would be ideal but other gloves and tennis or camp shoes would work.

Assuming you make it across it would be a shame to expire having overcome such a major obstacle so some thought should be made to warming up once you are across. Keeping warm clothing and a sleeping bag dry would be a good first start. One of the advantages of going bare is you start drip-drying as soon as you get out of the water and you can essentially dive right into a sleeping bag.

Having a stove ready to go, materials for a fire handy, a tent ready might also help. A self-erecting tent might be ideal as it would keep the wind off as you break out the sleeping bag.

Hint: Like most advance techniques prior practice greatly improves performance, speed of construction and execution, and outcomes.

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#213804 - 12/29/10 03:57 AM Re: Crossing a small flooded river in winter [Re: dweste]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"It is very hard for me to imagine no one has faced this scenario in the real world..."

They did. They died.

It happens all the time, and is so tiresome that the media often doesn't even cover it.

Sue

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#213807 - 12/29/10 05:54 AM Re: Crossing a small flooded river in winter [Re: dweste]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1181
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Wearing boots in rapids is dangerous as they get trapped between
rocks and drown one right away.

Using a rope is another good way to die quickly, save the well
trained with lots of other gear.

Anything over knee deep and you should find another way across.

Maybe you could trick those velociraptors into trying to swim
across?

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#213808 - 12/29/10 05:55 AM Re: Crossing a small flooded river in winter [Re: dweste]
Richlacal Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 778
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
How about using your Vehicle(Hopefully-Large 4-WD) to Push/Drag Huge Boulders,Trees,Debris,etc. into the river.If The River is 15' deep x 50' across,Theoretically,It should be quite Shallow for the 1st 10' or so,I would concentrate my efforts to Fill it with Debris,To Lessen the depth/Allow Floating debris to Accumulate enough for a possible fording.Hopefully My Large 4-WD will have enough supplies for the Duration!The Bets Off,should I meet up with a Velociraptor or Close Cousin!


Edited by Richlacal (12/29/10 05:59 AM)

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#213811 - 12/29/10 06:52 AM Re: Crossing a small flooded river in winter [Re: dweste]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Of course you must use the current to get you across - you just cannot fight it and win.

Various ferrying scenarios keep you / float/ raft, pointed toward the bank you want to reach by way of a paddle / sweep pole, and the current will force you / float / raft to the other shore. Angle control and stability difficulties are easy to imagine.

How about this:

At the waters edge, by lashing, build a semi-rigid "pole" of roughly harvested trees longer than the river is wide. Use as few trees as you can to minimize the number of lashings. "Hinge" the pole solidly at the downstream end with whatever you have or make. Make yourself as buoyant as possible to insulate your core as much as you can. Push off on the upstream end of the pole and the current will rapidly "close the door" by pushing the upstream end of the pole across the river - where you better get off pretty quickly before the river destroys the "door."


Edited by dweste (12/29/10 06:52 AM)

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#213813 - 12/29/10 08:47 AM Re: Crossing a small flooded river in winter [Re: Art_in_FL]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
This reminds me of an actual situation in Zion Nat'l Park earlier this year where two individuals fabricated a makeshift raft to use on a flooded stream in the park backcountry. End result?

They died....
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#213815 - 12/29/10 09:41 AM Re: Crossing a small flooded river in winter [Re: hikermor]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Originally Posted By: hikermor
They died....


Do you know why / how?

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#213819 - 12/29/10 12:43 PM Re: Crossing a small flooded river in winter [Re: dweste]
bsmith Offline
day hiker
Addict

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 589
Loc: ventura county, ca
Originally Posted By: dweste
Originally Posted By: hikermor
They died....

Do you know why / how?

they built a raft and went for the ride of their life: story
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#213820 - 12/29/10 12:53 PM Re: Crossing a small flooded river in winter [Re: dweste]
Byrd_Huntr Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1174
Loc: MN, Land O' Lakes & Rivers ...
Originally Posted By: dweste
At the waters edge, by lashing, build a semi-rigid "pole" of roughly harvested trees longer than the river is wide.


I believe you just gave the producers of Man v. Wild an idea....Bear could make such a pole and vault over to the other side!!!
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The man got the powr but the byrd got the wyng

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