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#213160 - 12/16/10 02:07 PM Re: Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle [Re: dweste]
TimDex Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 56
Loc: New York State
This explains what happened to a bottle of ultra pure lamp oil that I had in my garage. I was surprised to see it frozen solid yesterday.

I'm curious. Does this hurt the long term value of the oil? Is it the same when it thaws. I would assume so.

Tim W.

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#213209 - 12/17/10 02:44 AM Re: Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle [Re: dweste]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
If the oil doesn't separate or turn colors it can be pretty safely assumed to have survived freezing.

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#213213 - 12/17/10 03:10 AM Re: Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle [Re: dweste]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Yes, the oil will probably be okay. I've seen the same thing and never noticed any weird effects. A good mix before decanting would probably be a good idea. Couldn't hurt, anyway.

- - - - -
BTW: I did a test with tea lights in my snowbound car. Four tea lights in a safe container, with their aluminum holders touching to ensure all the wax would melt, raised the inside temp. to -7C with the outside temp. at -14C and a brisk wind (-23C windchill). This was done without a person inside and the windows were closed (though the window/door seals are pretty old; I could feel a bit of air coming in). The car had about 3-4 inches of snow on top, and I shovelled snow to close the air gap all around the bottom perimeter. So there you have it: candles actually help.


Edited by dougwalkabout (12/17/10 03:13 AM)

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#213214 - 12/17/10 03:12 AM Re: Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle [Re: dweste]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3148
Loc: Big Sky Country
Cool, Doug! Thanks for the practical test.
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“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#213245 - 12/17/10 06:05 PM Re: Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle [Re: dougwalkabout]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
I did a test with tea lights in my snowbound car. Four tea lights in a safe container, with their aluminum holders touching to ensure all the wax would melt, raised the inside temp. to -7C with the outside temp. at -14C and a brisk wind (-23C windchill). This was done without a person inside and the windows were closed (though the window/door seals are pretty old; I could feel a bit of air coming in). The car had about 3-4 inches of snow on top, and I shovelled snow to close the air gap all around the bottom perimeter. So there you have it: candles actually help.
Now, that's a very cool test! Four little tea light candles were able to raise the temperature seven degrees Celsius? That's impressive. How long did it take?

HJ
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Adventures In Stoving

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#213246 - 12/17/10 06:36 PM Re: Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle [Re: dweste]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I was kind of surprised too. I lit the tea lights and walked away for about three hours.

The tea lights I used were a bit deeper than the ones in the stores now. They were mostly burned up when I returned.

The car is a Mazda compact sedan. About the same air volume as a four-man tent I'd guess. You'd need a lot more candles for a Hummer.


Edited by dougwalkabout (12/17/10 06:36 PM)

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#213247 - 12/17/10 06:39 PM Re: Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle [Re: Hikin_Jim]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Real nice test. It probably would have been even warmer with an occupant or two; I have heard that a functioning body is about equivalent in heat output to a 100 watt bulb.

Now it's time for me to be the carbon monoxide Nazi. Any idea of what the CO level might have been? It would be interesting to repeat this test with a detector inside....
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Geezer in Chief

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#213249 - 12/17/10 07:17 PM Re: Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle [Re: dweste]
TimDex Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 56
Loc: New York State
That's a nice test. The only kicker I could see is -- would the car have been warmed up with the sun shining on its windows? The temp inside a car in winter does warm up if the sun is out. Tim

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#213251 - 12/17/10 08:07 PM Re: Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle [Re: dweste]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I think the CO level would have been pretty close to nil. On the windward side, I could feel a little bit of air being pushed in past the door seals (old car, you know). No doubt a bit was being pushed out on the lee side. Adequate ventilation for four tiny candles IMO. (I don't think my house CO detectors work below 0C.)

I don't believe sun was a factor this time, though it would be in other situations. It was late in the day, deep overcast, snow blowing horizontally across the fields. The car had 3-4 inches of powder snow across the top, including the windshield, hood, etc.

Not a scientific test by any means, but instructive none the less.

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#213263 - 12/18/10 01:10 AM Re: Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle [Re: dougwalkabout]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
I think the CO level would have been pretty close to nil.


I would hope so, but the reason I raise the issue is that my encounter with CO came from use of a miner's carbide lamp in a partially enclosed space with a volume about that of a typical automobile. The flame on the carbide would have had a length equivalent to one or two typical candles. The result was a raging headache which dissipated upon exposure to fresh air.

I checked for some public health information about carbon monoxide on Wikipedia. The estimate is that about 40,000 people seek medical attention for CO poisoning annually in the US. Over a ten year period (1979-88) there were 30,244 unintentional fatal cases of CO poisoning, as well as 25,889 suicides. The article mentioned that catalytic converters scrub about 99% of the CO from car exhaust, although an engine running in an enclosed space can still cause problems. Far fewer people use car exhaust as a means of suicide because of this.

end of rant - stepping down from soapbox.
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