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#213264 - 12/18/10 01:35 AM Re: Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle [Re: TimDex]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"Interested in responses: does burning alcohol produce CO?"

Answer: It depends.

The Sterno people say that their product (jelled alcohol) only produces carbon DIoxide and water when burned, no carbon monoxide.

But there's a bit more to it: First, ANY fuel will produce carbon monoxide when incompletely burned, including alcohol.

There is an interesting article [url= http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1818205/pdf/canmedaj01419-0054.pdf]here[/url] on a carbon monoxide poisoning incident due to burning Sterno where the Sterno cans were under a chaffing dish. Both the Sterno cans and the bottom of the chaffing dish were wrapped together in a wide collar of aluminum foil, which limited oxygen to the flames and caused incomplete combustion and a high concentration of carbon monoxide.

But even if you are burning alcohol completely and no carbon monoxide is produced, the burning itself requires oxygen, and in a closed environment the lack of oxygen will cause you to suffocate. Dead is dead.

Sue

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#213270 - 12/18/10 04:27 AM Re: Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle [Re: Susan]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
OK, I'm going to assume cracking the window about 1 cm on the leeward (hopefully) side of the vehicle is going to stand me in good stead.

So what are my options?
(Liquid) alcohol stove - too dang dangerous if I bump it over
Sterno - sounds like a good option, yes?
Candle - maybe not as safe as Sterno, but in some type of "candleier" maybe a pretty good bet. Candles do put out soot some times
Gas (butane/isobutane/propane) - no spill risk, but pretty high heat. Fire risk? Definitely don't want a spindly stove; you'd want something steady.
Coleman Fuel - no way in heck. Way to hazardous.
Kerosene - safer than Coleman, but I still can't see it

So maybe Sterno is actually the best heat for a car followed by candles as a second? Is this fair to say?

Yes, if I've got plenty of gas and my tail pipe is clear, the car's heater is great, and a plug in cigarette lighter electric heater would be great if you're willing to risk discharging your batter, but if I've got to fall back to something inside the car, what do you think?

I don't have any experience with portable catalytic propane heaters. Are those the better way to go?

HJ
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#213271 - 12/18/10 04:49 AM Re: Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle [Re: clearwater]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: clearwater
Anyone tried this?

It is combustion, wouldn't CO be a concern with it?

http://www.survivaltopics.com/survival/how-to-make-a-survival-heater-for-your-car/
He recommends using isopropyl alcohol? Everything I've read suggests that's a sooty mess to burn. Not so sure about that idea.

HJ
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#213273 - 12/18/10 05:12 AM Re: Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle [Re: Hikin_Jim]
Richlacal Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 778
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle,Start From the inside-out,Eat a Load of Pinto Beans & Jalapeno Peppers,It Will Warm You Up,& When The Authorities come,& Demand you exit the vehicle,They get a Waft of Warmth,When they open the door,Perhaps,They may also let you remain in your Vehicle! smile

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#213276 - 12/18/10 08:18 AM Re: Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle [Re: Hikin_Jim]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
Originally Posted By: Hikin_Jim
So what are my options?
(Liquid) alcohol stove - too dang dangerous if I bump it over
Sterno - sounds like a good option, yes?
Candle - maybe not as safe as Sterno, but in some type of "candleier" maybe a pretty good bet. Candles do put out soot some times
Gas (butane/isobutane/propane) - no spill risk, but pretty high heat. Fire risk? Definitely don't want a spindly stove; you'd want something steady.
Coleman Fuel - no way in heck. Way to hazardous.
Kerosene - safer than Coleman, but I still can't see it


Don't forget olive oil lamp, (you can easily make one with a jar, wire, and cotton fiber) and beeswax candles. Both burn much cleaner than paraffin. Yes, the olive oil may solidify but you can always put it inside the coat to warm up enough to light. Plus, with the olive oil lamp, you can adjust the wick thickness to create more heat. Any cotton twine works fine.

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#213281 - 12/18/10 11:32 AM Re: Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle [Re: dweste]
LesSnyder Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1581
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
re: catalytic heaters... I use them as space heaters and once lighted they are flameless...mine sit at an angle to the floor, but after my original comment, I used a plastic bottle stand from my single burner stove to set it vertical...the actual heating "head" might be a little large to sit on the floorboard without interfering with the dash... the pictures of the vertical unit on Coleman's web site appear to be a little smaller, and would be my choice... they are available with piezo electric starters but would naturally back it up...don't know what your daytime summer temps are but I think I would remove the gas bottles

I think I would give the Dietz lantern and kerosine a test if living in that type of climate...the W T Kirkman Co. does not recommend the use of paraffin based lamp oil (of which I am guilty) so will probably get a new wick and a supply of kerosine for next years hurricane season...light in a parked car on a highway is probably a good thing...

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#213291 - 12/18/10 05:26 PM Re: Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle [Re: dweste]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2792
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I'll see if I can do a test with my Dietz lantern. Might as well get *something* useful out of this lousy weather. eek

Stay tuned.

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#213295 - 12/18/10 10:05 PM Re: Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle [Re: dougwalkabout]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
Klean-Heat lantern/heater fuel is supposed to burn a lot cleaner than K-1 kerosene and with no smell. I plan on using some for my Dietz.

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#213300 - 12/19/10 12:09 AM Re: Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle [Re: dweste]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
From the 'Desperate Times and Desperate Measures' department there are also fat lamps. Pretty much any nonflammable container and a wick, a bit of natural fiber, preferably cotton, can be used to burn fats and oils.

The oil off the tip of the peanut-butter works. As would, shall we say, rendered fat ... looking sideways at her overweight companion and testing the edge on her knife ... well ... you get the idea.

You might also try engine oil or diesel, although last I tried them they burned poorly, smoked a great deal and produced fumes that were clearly not healthy. I suspect a lot of this comes from the additives that are added to both. Do NOT use gasoline.

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#213329 - 12/19/10 07:21 PM Re: Creating heat inside a stuck vehicle [Re: dweste]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
Here's an idea of kits I have in my car:

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=211780#Post211780

I hope I never have to use them.
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