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#206166 - 08/14/10 07:09 PM Re: Big dogs / little fence [Re: Mark_R]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC

This reminds me that I was once attacked by a dog. I worked in the Oregon State Parks and was collecting from campers one evening. I knocked on the door of a motor home and when the owner opened it his Irish Setter came flying out at me.

I carried a clipboard which I held out in defense and he clasped his jaws on it and we danced around the campsite while he bit the clipboard and I undiplomatically instructed his owner to get control of him.

So I think carrying something (in addition to pepper spray) would be wise. Something the dog can clasp onto other than a limb.




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#206169 - 08/14/10 07:16 PM Re: Big dogs / little fence [Re: Mark_R]
rebwa Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 295
Personally I wouldn’t get the stick. I think you’d be better off with the bear spray as a last resort, perhaps a tug dog toy and or some food. Most likely what you are seeing is bored dogs without enough supervision, exercise and probably training looking for something to do. If they are in prey drive which I would guess--then if one did come over the fence most likely he would run off with the tug toy and you could be on your way. In dog’s-- the defense drive is both flight and fight and getting into a fight with a dog who has a high threshold in the fight drive might not be a good idea. Actually most dog bites are from dogs who go into the flight drive or better known as fear bitters and that wouldn't be the case here unless you actually took hold of one or cornered one. I honestly think your seeing bored dogs, fence running in prey drive. Again, no excuse but bad owners!



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#206170 - 08/14/10 07:24 PM Re: Big dogs / little fence [Re: rebwa]
rebwa Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 295
http://dogequipment.com/products/TUGS-MATERIAL-French_Linen-STITCHED_tug.html

Something like this would be much more effective to let the dog latch onto than a stick in my opinion.

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#206181 - 08/14/10 11:55 PM Re: Big dogs / little fence [Re: Mark_R]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"On the event that I can push the dog around, do I push it toward the yard it escaped from or away and out of it’s territory. Which one will cause it to break off it’s attack first?"

There are probably at least four or five answers, all of which start with 'it depends'. I don't know what the official answer/use of a bite stick is.

Type of dog/type of biting behavior would probably influence how you would react. There are the Pit-types who tend to grab hold and hold on, and I wouldn't be surprised if the bite stick is mainly aimed at these, as there are so many pit breeds around. I could see you guiding (push or pull) a dog like this with the stick.

Other breeds are bite/release, bite/release types of biters. I suspect that most fear-biters are these. An aggressive bite/release type of dog seems to keep trying for a better grip, or just to deliver multiple bites. I can't even imagine a bite stick being of use here.

If you have any stick and can hold the dog off with it, and the owner is running to help, tell him to grab the dog's back legs "like a wheelbarrow" and back off with him. Tell him to keep him moving toward his yard or other enclosure.

You can use this same method if your dog gets into a dog fight IF there is a person for each dog who are willing to do it. (I've seen it used and have used it myself, and it works very well.) It does NOT work when there are two dogs (or more) fighting and you only drag off one of them, because the other dog(s) become the attackers. The really big advantage to this method is avoiding the biting end of the dog. Even your own dog will bite you without determining who he is biting.

I still think making friends (at least to tolerance levels) of dogs you see routinely is the best thing to do.

The wild card is the strange dog -- you don't know if he's just threatening, or if he really means business. If he gets within 15 feet and you've got pepper spray, I would say to use it.

Sue

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#206182 - 08/15/10 12:05 AM Re: Big dogs / little fence [Re: Susan]
rebwa Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 295
Fear bitters bite with more of a frontal type snap and actually do the ripping damage. A true fight bite in defence drive, like you would see on a good Schutzhund dog on a sleeve, involves a full grip and hold until told by their handler to release.

One reliable method to read a dog is if the hair is standing up on their back -- you're looking at fear--- not confidence and that would concern me in one of the working protection breeds.


Edited by rebwa (08/15/10 12:14 AM)

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#206185 - 08/15/10 12:10 AM Re: Big dogs / little fence [Re: rebwa]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
I've seen starter Schutzhund dogs do the bite/release. Yes, trained Schutzhund dogs do hold on, but is it training, is it experience, or is it natural?

IOW, does the dog know what he's doing, or is he making it up as he goes?

That darned dog-human language barrier surely does get in the way!

Sue

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#206187 - 08/15/10 12:16 AM Re: Big dogs / little fence [Re: Susan]
rebwa Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 295
It takes training but without genetics no amount of training will get the job done. A calm, confident grip is genetic.

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#206188 - 08/15/10 12:30 AM Re: Big dogs / little fence [Re: Susan]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
A personal story comes to mind about dogs in drive. . .I was out running one day and part of my run was through a business park. As I was running I noticed a shop owner across the street exit his shop with a dog and turn around to lock up. While he had his back turned, his rottweiler spotted me and crossed the street. I came to full stop and started calmly talking to him. Dog came up and sniffed, I scratched him behind the ears and waited for his owner to realize the dog wasn't with him. Guy almost had a heart attack when he saw his "guard dog" across the street with a total stranger. I started running again after the dog crossed the street and was back with his owner. No harm, it was just a dog being sociable.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#206197 - 08/15/10 10:41 AM Re: Big dogs / little fence [Re: Susan]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: Susan

You can use this same method if your dog gets into a dog fight IF there is a person for each dog who are willing to do it. (I've seen it used and have used it myself, and it works very well.) It does NOT work when there are two dogs (or more) fighting and you only drag off one of them, because the other dog(s) become the attackers. The really big advantage to this method is avoiding the biting end of the dog. Even your own dog will bite you without determining who he is biting.


The method recommended by those I know who train polar dog (sledgedogs) is to use a showel whenever there's a dog fight. It takes several seriously HARD whacks with the flat side of the showel on the top of both skulls to break their fighting frenzy. If you think that's brutal, you should see what these dogs are willing to do to each other...

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#206199 - 08/15/10 11:55 AM Re: Big dogs / little fence [Re: MostlyHarmless]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
I'm pretty sure in CA, it's actually legal to carry an exposed pistol, provided the chamber is empty. There's some grass roots movement (San Diego?) around that's been doing that for a while. People still tend to crap their pants when they see it, but, well, California is a bit naive in some things.
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf (look at page 28, the last line).
http://www.californiaopencarry.org/CaliforniaOpenCarry.pdf

I also don't really advocate a stick. But... if you're going to have one... A) cattle prod (imagine the suprise of the dog when he bites onto a live current), or B) one of those sword-in-a-stick are options to consider. I don't know the legality of either of those, however.

You could also have a nice figurehead or something on the head of your walking stick and make it a bit more weighted/pointy. Or, heck, just carve the end to a point. I'm pretty sure most folks would barely glance at a walking stick, much less notice if one end was a bit pointy. And a LEO would have an interesting time explaining it as weapon when, if need be, you could flip it upside down and rub that point down pretty quick.

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