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#207296 - 09/04/10 03:13 PM Re: Big dogs / little fence [Re: nouseforaname]
ponder Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 367
Loc: American Redoubt
Originally Posted By: rumbaugh
pepper spray has been PROVEN ineffective against some particularly aggressive and committed breeds.


I would be quite interested in reading any backup for this statement.
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PonderosaSports.com
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#207302 - 09/04/10 06:48 PM Re: Big dogs / little fence [Re: ponder]
nouseforaname Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 76
Originally Posted By: ponder
Originally Posted By: rumbaugh
pepper spray has been PROVEN ineffective against some particularly aggressive and committed breeds.


I would be quite interested in reading any backup for this statement.


well, beyond my personal experiences with being sprayed (and it not deterring me) and spraying others (and it not deterring them), here are some sites for your perusal:

- http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080626225520AAlKL5t

"Why doesnt pepper spray work on Pit Bulls?
Is mace the same thing? Wow! And I cary mace with me everywhee. here's the news from San Diego.
UNION-TRIBUNE

June 26, 2008
ESCONDIDO: One of two pit bulls that attacked a woman's dog and couldn't be subdued was shot and killed Tuesday by an Escondido police officer.

Neighbors saw the dog being attacked and initially fended off the pit bulls with shovels, Escondido Lt. David Mankin said.

An animal control officer tried to catch the pit bulls, but the dogs approached the officer aggressively, said Abigail Rowland, development director of the Escondido Humane Society.

When a police officer arrived, the pit bulls began circling, Mankin said. The animal control officer used pepper spray, but it was ineffective. When one of the dogs ran toward the police officer, Mankin said, the officer shot it twice.

The dog that was attacked was expected to survive, Rowland said.

Authorities captured the second pit bull. The owner of the dogs, who was...."



"Pepper Spray Works, But Don't Bet Your Life On It
Article #1245"
http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF12/1245.html
(bears, but the physiological responses can be equated)

Lastly, consider this: while a spontaneous, opportunistic attack by a 'friendly' breed could be deterred by the application of OC, a predatory - or as Cesar Milan has quiped - a 'Red Zone' - dog may not be as willing to go along with your plans. There are no hard and fast rules...the effectiveness of it on committed, human, attackers is debatable (again, personal experience, YMMV).

Also, one must take into account the ability to recognize the attack (from an animal that - if relying on its predatory instincts - will not give you advance warning) and physically manipulate the OC in a way that 1. it hits it's intended target and 2. doesn't inadvertadly handicap you.

am i saying pepper spray is useless? absolutely not...if given the best of circustances, it could very well prevent serious injury to you and the dog...but, when it comes to being thrashed by a maniacal hound, well this is neither horseshoes nor handgrenades...i'll go with lethal force - pepper spray if they're lucky and i have time.
_________________________
"It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known" - A Tale of Two Cities - Charles Dickens

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#207306 - 09/04/10 07:59 PM Re: Big dogs / little fence [Re: Mark_R]
sotto Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 450
IMHO, there are pepper sprays, and then there are PEPPER SPRAYS. I had the misfortune of getting a little teeny bit of the stuff on my hands one time in the course of changing out the canister on my ASP Key Defender. I had screwed the end cap on slightly askew and accidentally released a small amount of spray onto my left hand. I wiped off what I could and replaced the canister with a completely fresh one. Sometime later I had occasion to rub my left eye. Holy MOG, I was immediately extremely sorry I had done this. In the course of trying to undo what I'd done over the bathroom sink, I discovered that the oily capseicin (sp?) material spreads worse than an oil slick. It made it's way onto the faucets and sink basin (much to the dismay of my wife who ran some water in the basin later and washed her face), and onto the towel I dried off with (again much to the dismay of my wife who tried to use the towel to remove the burning water from her face and eyes). All I can tell you is, if I try to bite you and you spray me with ASP PEPPER SPRAY, I'm gonna change my mind about biting you immediately.

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#207328 - 09/05/10 11:58 AM Re: Big dogs / little fence [Re: sotto]
Byrd_Huntr Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1160
Loc: MN, Land O' Lakes & Rivers ...
Originally Posted By: sotto


This is comforting to me, also. I still have teeth marks on my arm from a bite by a neighbor lady's large brittany spaniel more than 35 years ago. She was walking the dog down the street, and he was cheerily carrying a stick in his mouth like he wanted to play fetch. We stopped to have a friendly word with this lady, and without warning the dog dropped the stick, and lunged toward my face. I threw up my left arm, and he bit through my shirt into my left bicep. For his trouble, he spent several days penned up so the county health department could see if he had rabies. During this time, he was presumably well fed and watered. I spent most of the next week in pain, but my wife also made sure I was well-fed and watered.



Reminds me of a situation I heard about.

A man was walking down the sidewalk and saw another man and a large dog approaching. He stopped and greeted the man and said "does your dog bite?" The other guy says "No". The first guy reaches to pet the dog and was immediatley bitten. He says "I thought you said your dog doesn't bite" The seocnd man says "That's not my dog".
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#207330 - 09/05/10 12:10 PM Re: Big dogs / little fence [Re: Byrd_Huntr]
sotto Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 450
Originally Posted By: Byrd_Huntr
Originally Posted By: sotto


This is comforting to me, also. I still have teeth marks on my arm from a bite by a neighbor lady's large brittany spaniel more than 35 years ago. She was walking the dog down the street, and he was cheerily carrying a stick in his mouth like he wanted to play fetch. We stopped to have a friendly word with this lady, and without warning the dog dropped the stick, and lunged toward my face. I threw up my left arm, and he bit through my shirt into my left bicep. For his trouble, he spent several days penned up so the county health department could see if he had rabies. During this time, he was presumably well fed and watered. I spent most of the next week in pain, but my wife also made sure I was well-fed and watered.



Reminds me of a situation I heard about.

A man was walking down the sidewalk and saw another man and a large dog approaching. He stopped and greeted the man and said "does your dog bite?" The other guy says "No". The first guy reaches to pet the dog and was immediatley bitten. He says "I thought you said your dog doesn't bite" The seocnd man says "That's not my dog".


Peter Sellers and the hotel clerk in one of the Pink Panther movies. I love those movies. "Zat eez NOT my dawg!" ha ha

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#207402 - 09/06/10 09:32 PM Re: Big dogs / little fence [Re: sotto]
nouseforaname Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 76
Originally Posted By: sotto
IMHO, there are pepper sprays, and then there are PEPPER SPRAYS. I had the misfortune of getting a little teeny bit of the stuff on my hands one time in the course of changing out the canister on my ASP Key Defender. I had screwed the end cap on slightly askew and accidentally released a small amount of spray onto my left hand. I wiped off what I could and replaced the canister with a completely fresh one. Sometime later I had occasion to rub my left eye. Holy MOG, I was immediately extremely sorry I had done this. In the course of trying to undo what I'd done over the bathroom sink, I discovered that the oily capseicin (sp?) material spreads worse than an oil slick. It made it's way onto the faucets and sink basin (much to the dismay of my wife who ran some water in the basin later and washed her face), and onto the towel I dried off with (again much to the dismay of my wife who tried to use the towel to remove the burning water from her face and eyes). All I can tell you is, if I try to bite you and you spray me with ASP PEPPER SPRAY, I'm gonna change my mind about biting you immediately.


haha, an instructor was recounting an interesting story about how a lot of his students from a particular class were having a hard time decontaminating and were being diagnosed with corneal abrasions after taking his class...he couldn't figure it out. they were being sprayed, deconing in a large above-ground pool and then standing in front of an industrial fan. turns out the OC was forming a nice 'slick' on top of the water, so everytime they dunked, they got a new layer of it on their skin...the eye issues were from the dust in the air hitting their eyes over and over...hah.

OC isn't bad...it's the shower you take that night. as hard as you try, you can't get it all off - you think it's gone, but it's not...it's hibernating. when you get home, and hop in the shower, all of the residue left in your hairline goes right down the front; eyes, chest, stomach....yeaaaaaa.

as far as accidental exposure; well, i had an old can i used to carry in my jeans pockets...i'm pretty rambunctious at times, so it had developed a few dents, but nothing noteworthy or requiring disposal...well, jeans (as we all know) are good for multiple uses between washing...one day (day 7 without a wash!) i decided to go commando. i was in Fells Point in Baltimore and i did one of those 'scratch oneself through the pocket' moves...maybe 30 seconds later, i realized the seemingly apocolyptic error of my ways as certain nether-regions were burning like all get out. unfortunately, the only public bathroom in Fells Point happened to be at the Subway 3 blocks away...fortunately, this public bathroom has a sink that can support the weight and flailings of a 25 year old man - as i was straddling the sink, half naked, trying to reconcile myself to the fact that i will probably never be able to bear children.
_________________________
"It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known" - A Tale of Two Cities - Charles Dickens

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#207405 - 09/07/10 12:28 AM Re: Big dogs / little fence [Re: Mark_R]
sybert777 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 299
Loc: 62040
^LOL^ I couldnt imagine, Once, I pulled the front of my thigh, and put Muscle Rub on it and I got an unexpected "fire" I feel so sorry for you!
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International Military Sales PLUS

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#207456 - 09/07/10 06:11 PM Re: Big dogs / little fence [Re: sotto]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1619
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: sotto
IMHO, there are pepper sprays, and then there are PEPPER SPRAYS. I had the misfortune of getting a little teeny bit of the stuff on my hands one time in the course of changing out the canister on my ASP Key Defender. I had screwed the end cap on slightly askew and accidentally released a small amount of spray onto my left hand. I wiped off what I could and replaced the canister with a completely fresh one. Sometime later I had occasion to rub my left eye. Holy MOG, I was immediately extremely sorry I had done this. In the course of trying to undo what I'd done over the bathroom sink, I discovered that the oily capseicin (sp?) material spreads worse than an oil slick. It made it's way onto the faucets and sink basin (much to the dismay of my wife who ran some water in the basin later and washed her face), and onto the towel I dried off with (again much to the dismay of my wife who tried to use the towel to remove the burning water from her face and eyes). All I can tell you is, if I try to bite you and you spray me with ASP PEPPER SPRAY, I'm gonna change my mind about biting you immediately.


Here we have an example of why I don't use pepper spray or PEPPER SPRAY. It's too indiscriminate for my, uh, taste. smirk
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If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#207458 - 09/07/10 06:18 PM Re: Big dogs / little fence [Re: nouseforaname]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1619
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: rumbaugh
as far as accidental exposure; well, i had an old can i used to carry in my jeans pockets...i'm pretty rambunctious at times, so it had developed a few dents, but nothing noteworthy or requiring disposal...well, jeans (as we all know) are good for multiple uses between washing...one day (day 7 without a wash!) i decided to go commando. i was in Fells Point in Baltimore and i did one of those 'scratch oneself through the pocket' moves...maybe 30 seconds later, i realized the seemingly apocolyptic error of my ways as certain nether-regions were burning like all get out. unfortunately, the only public bathroom in Fells Point happened to be at the Subway 3 blocks away...fortunately, this public bathroom has a sink that can support the weight and flailings of a 25 year old man - as i was straddling the sink, half naked, trying to reconcile myself to the fact that i will probably never be able to bear children.


Ouch... The hard part is getting your significant other to believe that story. whistle
_________________________
If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#208857 - 10/02/10 12:00 AM Re: Big dogs / little fence [Re: Mark_R]
CarlosD Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/19/10
Posts: 22
Hi,

I haven't read through all the responses so forgive me for any redunancies. I would opt also for the hiking stick or even a regular escrima stick.

I live in NY, where pretty much anything is illegal, but many people jog, walk and walk their own dogs carrying a similar bludgeon. And we're not in a rough area, either. It's just an accepted sign of the times, I guess.

A few things I wanted to add that may help you with dog confrontations:

1) If a dog is loose, do not RUN away from it. Rather make your departure at an oblique angle, facing the dog, but not staring at it. In the dog world, this body language indicates you do not want to fight but will defend if provoked.

2) Do not stare them in the eyes but rather at the ground in front of them. Rely on your peripheral vision to see what you're doing but don't directly stare.

3) Keep your mouth closed or, at least, do not show your teeth. Some dogs take this as aggression.

4) If a dog attacks, make sure to protect your neck as they will often go for face bites as they associate your teeth as your primary weapon.

5) If a dog is barking at you but is behind a fence (even a smallish, puny one), continue walking as you were. Many times, they are just protecting their territory and are putting on a show. If you keep walking and act unperturbed, they usually will stop once you're out of their range.

I'm a dog fan but acknowledge the dangers of aggressive, unsocialized and loose dogs. Your vigilance is your best asset.

Best wishes.

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