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#208433 - 09/21/10 11:11 PM Re: Survival Hunting [Re: Stoney]
roberttheiii Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 325
Loc: Connecticut, USA
First, there are firearms that withstand over 100,000 rounds (Glock, Kreighoff, some Brownings), but, who cares? I hope we can all agree that for hunting purposes 100,000 rounds is a meaningless number. If I hunted carefully and in the right terrain I could probably feed myself for the rest of my life (lets say 50 years) by firing no more than 1,200 rounds. That'd be one large game animal a month for 50 years. Any reasonably quality firearm can withstand that. Let's say instead I had to fire 12,000 rounds, 10 rounds per month, any reasonable firearm could withstand that as well.

That said, if you want to use a BB gun for survival purposes, do it, don't let me stop you (after all in I'd consider going w/o any sort of gun at all).

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#208435 - 09/22/10 12:02 AM Re: Survival Hunting [Re: Stoney]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3077
The Crossman C11 BB airgun would be totally unsuitable for hunting as you don't get much meat on a sparrow. For hunting rabbits and other small game you really need a bare minimum of 10-12 ft lbs energy to be humane whilst hunting small game. I doubt if the Crossman will get you 1-2 ft lbs energy at around 10-15 metres. (assuming 50-80 BBs per 12gram CO2 cartridge). The general rule is that with a minimum of 10-12ft lbs energy in .22 pellet you need to compensate somewhat with better accuracy for these very low ballistic energies. The Crossman C11 BB airgun will have poor accuracy compared to something like the classic Webley Tempest .22 air pistol (3-4 ft lbs). The Webley Tempest .22 would be unacceptable for hunting.

A more suitable alternative would be a .22 Magnum version of the Cricket Hunter Pistol. This would give a vastly more powerful hunting alternative firepower.

http://www.crickett.com/crickett_hunterpistol.php

If you are going to stick with a cheap air rifle CO2 solution then perhaps the QB78 .22 pellet rifle with an Archer XP tune kit (takes the power up to around 12ft lbs). The QB78 air rifle is reasonably lightweight and quite accurate, but will only give you around 25-30 shots per pair of CO2 12gm cartridges.

http://www.archerairguns.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=IBQB78D

http://www.archerairguns.com/QB78-XP-Tune-Kit-p/xptunekit.htm

In the UK anything above 12 ft lbs energy requires a fire arms license, even for a pellet air gun.







Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (09/22/10 12:46 AM)

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#208441 - 09/22/10 03:18 AM Re: Survival Hunting [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Richlacal Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 778
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Around these parts(Continental U.S.) Sparrows are Rarily alone,Including English Sparrows,That said,10 Sparrows would provide a meal!Just about any BB-gun will do,& Since we happen to be on this side of the pond,No Worries as per-psi for the BB/Pellet gun!I had a Red-Ryder as a kid,& though my Karma suffered,Almost everything I Tagged,Most certainly Did Not,On some occasions,such as Blue Jays/Brown Birds,a 2nd shot did the trick!Now apply that to survival,& One should not go Hungry,for long,Of course that also depends on Where You'll be doing your survival! Anywhere in Michigan,short of Severe Weather/Squalls,You would be Good to Go!Don't forget that back-up fishing kit,&Good Luck!

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#208470 - 09/22/10 10:07 PM Re: Survival Hunting [Re: Stoney]
roberttheiii Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 325
Loc: Connecticut, USA

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#208482 - 09/23/10 04:10 AM Re: Survival Hunting [Re: Stoney]
lukus Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 170
Loc: TEXAS (where else?)
I think a CO2 pellet pistol is a terrible choice. CO2 cartridges are clunky to have to carry around and keep track of in a survival situation. Once they're gone, your pistol is a club. If it just absolutely has to be a pellet gun, and just absolutely has to be a pistol, then a pump like the 1377 is the way to go.
http://www.pyramydair.com/p/crosman-1377-pump-pistol.shtml

A .22 rimfire is a much better choice. Pistol still wouldn't be my first, but there are a few around the $200 mark that can be found. Browning Buckmarks are numerous, can be found used, and are hellishly accurate and durable. Read some reviews.

An idea for a simple, light, and small rifle would be a youth .22, like a Crickett or Chipmunk. Small and light enough that you could stash it in most backpacks fairly easily. And you would have the benefit of an "easy to shoot accurately" rifle. (I even saw one one time that someone had cut the stock and artfully attached a folding stock.)

I bought my son a Henry Mini Bolt (kind of a Cadillac of single shot youth .22s at $200 + tax) a few months ago. We're both having a blast with it, already more than 250 cheap .22lr thru it. Just a fun, tiny, lightweight gun. It slips into the hydration pouch of one of my backpacks with about 4" of barrel sticking out.

You have a veerrry wide selection of .22 power levels: from CCI Velocitors (have the power to take deer with proper shot placement) to 20gr Colibri. I bought a brick of the Colibri and have already put a couple of boxes thru the Mini Bolt. Super quiet, the loudest noise is the bullet hitting the target. It really is like shooting a good airgun, only quieter (quieter than a CO2 pellet pistol), and with the wallop of a 20 grain bullet - good for up to squirrel. CCI CB Longs up the power and bullet weight a little - good up to feral cat (we used to have a feral cat problem, but no longer, and I mostly used CB longs.) A couple of boxes of mixed power types weigh little and will give you a wide range of humane kills. I really think it's the way to go. Look at a good selection of .22 on ammotogo.com.
Colibri ammo:
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_in...mmo-solid-point

Just my $2 and .02 cents.

lukus

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#208484 - 09/23/10 05:32 AM Re: Survival Hunting [Re: Stoney]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1828
Loc: MINNESOTA
one of the best examples of weapon choice in a canoe adventure that turned into a survival walk out was the Hubbard and Wallace 1902 trip into what was then unknown parts of Labrador.along with their guide George Elson they went into what they thought would be Caribou hunting grounds so they had high powered rifles.along with long barrel 22's for pot shooting that was all they had against good advice to have a shotgun.no Caribou were found in any large numbers and only one was shot.the 22 got a goose or two and if they had the shotgun they could have got many more.it was one of those "three went in,two came out"story's.many mistakes and some very bad luck was also involved but with the right gun they all could have got enough meat to hold off starvation and get everyone out.i always suggest "the lure of the labrador wild" as a good read for anyone who spends anytime in the outdoors.


Edited by CANOEDOGS (09/23/10 05:33 AM)

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#208492 - 09/23/10 02:49 PM Re: Survival Hunting [Re: Stoney]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2944
Loc: USA
My survival rifle is a Kel-Tec SU-16B. It folds up, is extremely reliable and I hit what I shoot at with it. The ammo is a lot heavier and bulkier than .22LR, but I also have a wider variety of game that I could theoretically take with it. In .22LR, my choice is a Ruger 10/22 with a youth stock and fiber optic sights.

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#208495 - 09/23/10 04:27 PM Re: Survival Hunting [Re: Stoney]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1828
Loc: MINNESOTA

OK..how about this?



i'm out in the wilds on my own for how knows how long,the food is getting really low and just fish is not making it.in real life this was a week into a two week solo canoe trip and i had more than enough to eat not to mention "fun food" like cookies and popcorn.but lets say i need to kill that deer--see it across the bay in the red circle--about 65 yards by Google map measure--
even over open sights with a 30-30 i would not want to stake my life on that shot..by the way this deer was really tame.it just browsed around while i sat and had lunch and took photos.so a air pistol?.shotgun? old surplus Enfield?..modern 280 with red dot sights?..sneak up on it after a six hour stalk and leap out of tree with a--name you favorite knife here--and cut it's throat??
ok i'm getting off track here but what do you think??

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#208515 - 09/23/10 11:36 PM Re: Survival Hunting [Re: CANOEDOGS]
Byrd_Huntr Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1160
Loc: MN, Land O' Lakes & Rivers ...
Originally Posted By: CANOEDOGS

OK..how about this?



i'm out in the wilds on my own for how knows how long,the food is getting really low and just fish is not making it.in real life this was a week into a two week solo canoe trip and i had more than enough to eat not to mention "fun food" like cookies and popcorn.but lets say i need to kill that deer--see it across the bay in the red circle--about 65 yards by Google map measure--
even over open sights with a 30-30 i would not want to stake my life on that shot..by the way this deer was really tame.it just browsed around while i sat and had lunch and took photos.so a air pistol?.shotgun? old surplus Enfield?..modern 280 with red dot sights?..sneak up on it after a six hour stalk and leap out of tree with a--name you favorite knife here--and cut it's throat??
ok i'm getting off track here but what do you think??



Looks like it's a long shot.....too long for .22 or shotgun for me. Nice picture though. I think I'm going to take your advice and get a copy of the book "the lure of the labrador wild" to read when the cold winds blow this winter.
_________________________
The man got the powr but the byrd got the wyng

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#208521 - 09/24/10 01:41 AM Re: Survival Hunting [Re: CANOEDOGS]
sotto Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 450
Originally Posted By: CANOEDOGS

OK..how about this?



i'm out in the wilds on my own for how knows how long,the food is getting really low and just fish is not making it.in real life this was a week into a two week solo canoe trip and i had more than enough to eat not to mention "fun food" like cookies and popcorn.but lets say i need to kill that deer--see it across the bay in the red circle--about 65 yards by Google map measure--
even over open sights with a 30-30 i would not want to stake my life on that shot..by the way this deer was really tame.it just browsed around while i sat and had lunch and took photos.so a air pistol?.shotgun? old surplus Enfield?..modern 280 with red dot sights?..sneak up on it after a six hour stalk and leap out of tree with a--name you favorite knife here--and cut it's throat??
ok i'm getting off track here but what do you think??


K, I'll bite. Hypothetically, I would like one of those well-sighted in Savage over and under combos with a .223 on the top and a 20 guage or whatever on the bottom with some large shot, 00 buck maybe. I would feel fairly comfortable under those circumstances that I could take that deer. I don't know which barrel I would chose to use. At first I thought the .223 barrel with a round in the heart/lung area, but OO buck at that range also might work, although it's a bit on the outside end of the good effective range I suppose. Oh, it would be quite possible to use one of those .223 barrel inserts that take a .22 LR cartridge for smaller game with that gun, too.

A somewhat dice-ier shot would be with my scoped Marlin bolt action .22 WMR carbine. At 65 yards, a neck shot would be easy, a brain shot possible. That's one very accurate rifle, and I would seriously consider taking that if I were wandering off into the deep dark woods. It doesn't weigh much, and a person could take a lot of ammo.

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