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#206769 - 08/25/10 04:31 PM Re: Best first firearm, probably redux [Re: clearwater]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Loud = scare game away for a long distance.

I have a breakdown recurve bow which will be in play also. I also am working on learning how to make bows and arrows, etc. from native materials. Bows and arrows are relatively bulky also.

Shotguns can easily over-tenderize small game like squirrels and even rabbits, at the expense of losing meat that a careful rimfire head shot preserves.

Making jerky will be part of the the program.

Primitive skills classes, including useful and edible plants, tanning hides, flint / obsidian knapping, fire starting, cordage making, etcetera. have been my deal for years. It is hard to find places to legally practice harvesting such plant materials, but I work in a little when I can. Living on plant stuff alone makes you hungry pretty fast and does not supply much in the way of fat or protein, even from acorn or nuts.

All that aside, one gun, multiple guns, combo gun?

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#206770 - 08/25/10 04:45 PM Re: Best first firearm, probably redux [Re: clearwater]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2823
Originally Posted By: clearwater
Originally Posted By: dweste
But it is very loud and a reasonable collection of shells tend to be a bit pricey, bulky, and heavy.


An NEF single shot shotgun weighs only 5 pounds and costs about
$120 at Walmart. Undo one screw and it can be broken down to fit
in a pack.

In CA a long gun cannot be considered a concealable
weapon, so you could carry it unloaded in your pack anywhere except sensitive places and school zones. A handgun has a great
many more restrictions.

IANAL


I have similar, a single shot youth shotgun that you can replace the barrel with a rifle barrel. Quite light weight.

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#206771 - 08/25/10 04:46 PM Re: Best first firearm, probably redux [Re: dweste]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: dweste
All that aside, one gun, multiple guns, combo gun?


Originally, you said you won't be carrying multiple firearms. Now, you'll consider it? That completely changes the options and dynamics. So, will you be willing to carry multiple firearms for sure?

By the way, there is a disadvantage to any firearm you choose. I don't think there is any getting around the fact that a shotgun is far more versatile than any other gun that is legal in California, or possibly any other gun period.

You should hone in on what your needs are and rank them in a clear, concise list. Right now, you're dancing around and it's difficult to figure out what you want/need.

Originally Posted By: Eugene
I have similar, a single shot youth shotgun that you can replace the barrel with a rifle barrel. Quite light weight.


Great, and the make and model is... confused
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#206772 - 08/25/10 04:50 PM Re: Best first firearm, probably redux [Re: dweste]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1059
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Originally Posted By: dweste




All that aside, one gun, multiple guns, combo gun?


NEF Handi rifle in 357mag. Legal on deer, light compact ammo.

shot load for quail, grouse

38 special rounds for quiet (quieter than 22lr hv), cheap,
accurate for head shots on squirrel. Does a better job on
jack rabbits than a 22lr.

You can also get shotgun barrels to fit on the frame.

Quickly reamed to 357 max in about 15 minutes if you want to
handload rounds approaching 30-30 win.


Edited by clearwater (08/25/10 04:58 PM)

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#206774 - 08/25/10 04:55 PM Re: Best first firearm, probably redux [Re: clearwater]
Leo Offline
Stranger

Registered: 12/27/09
Posts: 24
Loc: Colorado
The first question is how much weight are you willing to dedicate to your firearm. Decide on a number and be sure to include everything associated with the gun that you would not be carrying otherwise. This would include tools, cleaning gear and extra belts, slings and pouches.
The second question is will you be shooting big game or not. One does not shoot 100 lbs of meat just to extend your stay for a few days. That is two to three weeks worth of food for one. If you intend to extend your stay by weeks then bring a deer rifle and call it a hunting trip. Avoid any kind of compromise gun. Otherwise think about small game up to the size of porcupine or beaver.
I would consider fishing tackle and a light-weight small bore rifle. The .22 magnum rimfire is my personal favorite but plenty of folks use the .22 long rifle as a primary foraging gun.
If you are a realy good pistol shot then an accurate long barreled handgun will save a bunch of weight. You should be able to manage at minimum 3 inch groups at 20 yards before you depend on taking game with it. A .22M, .32 or .38 special would be my choices. The .22 lr in a handgun just doesn't have the oomph I want for larger small game.
Leo

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#206775 - 08/25/10 05:45 PM Re: Best first firearm, probably redux [Re: ireckon]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 849
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: ireckon

You should hone in on what your needs are and rank them in a clear, concise list.


I'm going to second that. Not to bag on you, but can you fill us in on a couple of things?

1) Basecamping or nomadic? - Are you staying put where preserving and carrying meat is not going to be an issue, or do you plan to pick and move often? If your not staying put, there's not much reason to go after anything that can't immediately be eaten.

2) What environment are you going into? - Open grasslands/chapparel/ lodgepole forests, etc. The ability to make a 300 yard shot is kinda worthless if you're hunting in areas where you can't see 70 yards through the trees, and vice versa.

3) What other food sources are there? - Are you fishing, gathering, trapping, etc? You mentioned carrying a takedown recurve. How powerfull is it (25-41 ft*lbs is reccommended for deer sized game), and what is your "pie plate" accuracy for unmarked distances?
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#206777 - 08/25/10 06:16 PM Re: Best first firearm, probably redux [Re: Mark_R]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2184
Loc: Deep south... Carolina
People tend to forget there's LOTS of calibers.

Not sure if it'll work for you, but .17HMR is a light round (smaller than .22) and works up to animals about 40-50 lbs (think large coyote). Maybe bigger with good shot placment. Bad side is the cost of the rounds is kind of hight.

I know there's also single-shot .223 rifles. It's a bit peppier than your standard .22, you can find ammo everywhere, and it'll take down deer size pretty well. Ammo is fairly inexpensive, and you can buy LOTS of surplus ammo.

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#206779 - 08/25/10 07:01 PM Re: Best first firearm, probably redux [Re: MDinana]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1059
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Originally Posted By: MDinana
People tend to forget there's LOTS of calibers.

Not sure if it'll work for you, but .17HMR is a light round (smaller than .22) and works up to animals about 40-50 lbs (think large coyote). Maybe bigger with good shot placment. Bad side is the cost of the rounds is kind of hight.

I know there's also single-shot .223 rifles. It's a bit peppier than your standard .22, you can find ammo everywhere, and it'll take down deer size pretty well. Ammo is fairly inexpensive, and you can buy LOTS of surplus ammo.


Both are a lot louder than a 22 or a 38 special, tho the 223
is deer legal in California.

The NEF Handi rifles do come in a lot of calibers. I have
one with a 30-30, a 12 gauge and a 223 barrel. I have
carried the 12 gauge turkey hunting and carried the 30-30
barrel in my pack for pigs. Not a quick change over, it
takes one screw in the forearm, but if you saw game at a distance
and had time to stalk, it would work.

The 30-30 with peep sites weights 7 lbs, with the 12 gauge
barrel 5 lbs, with the lightweight 223, 5.5lbs.


Edited by clearwater (08/25/10 07:06 PM)

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#206782 - 08/25/10 07:55 PM Re: Best first firearm, probably redux [Re: clearwater]
haertig Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2025
Loc: Colorado
I would go for something that can take small sized animals for food. I wouldn't buy something sized for deer myself. .22LR, .22mag or .17hmr would be good choices. Personally, I'd opt for the .22LR. I would also have to recommend something that will reliably shoot when dirty or abused. That means no semi-autos. And preferable no external (removeable) mags. Stick with lever, bolt, or single shot - they are not ammo sensitive and will feed anything. Get tube fed if it's a multi-shot. I wouldn't want the bulk/weight of a scope either. A tang sight would be ideal - just about as accurate as a scope at distances you'd be shooting with a .22LR. If a tang sight wouldn't fit your rifle, then a receiver mount peep sight is a good second choice.

Picking one rifle to do it all, my choice would be a Henry lever action in .22lr with a tang sight mounted. I have the Henry H001T and I love it, but I would not recommend it for your trek. Simply because it has a heavy octogon barrel and you wouldn't want to lug around that extra weight. Go for the basic normal-barrel Henry (the H001), or the carbine (the H001L), or even the youth model (the H001Y). However, the heavy barrel octogon model (the H001T) has a barrel already dovetailed to allow multiple front sight options so that's a plus, but the downside is it's extra weight. A Lyman globe sight up front would be ideal for your adventure. And a Marbles or Lyman rear tang sight. The Marbles rear is adjustable for windage, the Lyman is not (but it's cheaper).

If you don't like lever actions (Who doesn't?! They're great!) you could go for the Marlin 981T bolt action tube fed .22LR. It is noticeably longer and heavier than the Henry though. The 981T is a nice .22LR rifle, but the Henry is much faster handling.

I don't have any single shot .22's in my collection, so I can't recommend one. But they are so simple in operation that I can't imagine you'd go wrong with any one you decided to buy.

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#206783 - 08/25/10 08:00 PM Re: Best first firearm, probably redux [Re: haertig]
haertig Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2025
Loc: Colorado
Don't forget that an air rifle or a slingshot (with appropriate ammo) can easily take rabbits, squirrels, birds, etc. You need to be closer to your target when firing though. I would rule archery out, simply because it would be difficult to carry enough arrows for longer term hunting for sustenance.

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