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#205731 - 08/08/10 11:45 AM Re: cash in your BOB [Re: Phaedrus]
Byrd_Huntr Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1160
Loc: MN, Land O' Lakes & Rivers ...
Originally Posted By: Phaedrus
My interest in survival is of the wilderness/short term type. I don't think we'll see TEOTWAWKI in my lifetime, and if it does happen no amount of preparation will guarentee survival. My interest in life is in living it, not merely existing on as a hardscrabble survivor fighting with the cockroaches after Armageddon. True, if it comes to I may have to reconsider. But since there's rarely if ever been a complete worldwide collapse of civilization in all of our written human history, I think it's prudent to devote the bulk of my resources to the emergencies I'm more likely to face.


I have to agree with you one at least some points. My primary interest in this forum is wilderness survival, but as I read about other scenarios, I realize how thin the veneer of civilization really is, and how fragile the technological environment we have created.

I now think of TEOTWAWKI as a more personal and localized thing. It doesn't have to be 'THE' world, just 'MY' world. Even if you don't live in earthquake or hurricane country, a TEOTWAWKI situation could occur almost instantly as a result of a large scale extended power outage. This could occur as a result of acts of war, terrorism, or solar flares. A coordinated biological terrorist attack against the air and water supply in major cities would also have catastrophic results everywhere.

I have spent countless hours in the woods and on the waters of the three state boreal region where I live. I have never been hopelessly lost, seriously injured, or attacked by an animal (OK, I got pecked in the head by a robin once), and yet I prepare for those things. While I agree that a post-apocalypse Mad Max scenario is for the movies, I also think that reasonable precautions against reasonable risks makes a lot of sense.
_________________________
The man got the powr but the byrd got the wyng

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#205738 - 08/08/10 04:04 PM Re: cash in your BOB [Re: Byrd_Huntr]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2811
Loc: La-USA
Every place has it's STOBOR!

With the heat waves that have hit the country this summer, I'm surprised that the electrical grid has held up so well. It has apparently been under great strain with all the increased demand for electricity.
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QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#205899 - 08/11/10 09:28 PM Re: cash in your BOB [Re: wildman800]
Chisel Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 1154
I don't have one single kit that is comrehensive enough to be called a BOB. Rather i have a SYSTEM of kits. Maybe a GHB or EDC kit, plus several stashes here and there.

In every kit or bag, I have put cash in medium and small bills.
So, in every situation , I will be having cash in the portable kit/bag I am carrying plus cash in a kit nearby ( in car, office ..etc.)

Between any two kits ( mobile and stationary ) I may be having around $ 200. But this does not count what I have in my wallet which is usually medium and larger bills and it is usually around $ 1000.

BTW, I am not in the U.S.

Cash really solves problems that would otherwise make me frustrated. As a matter of fact, I have so far stubbornly refused bank advertisements and junk-mail SMS ..etc. to have their credit cards. I may go for debit cards though to purchase stuff from the U.S. Other than that, cash is both comfortable and suitable to my stressful lifestyle.



Edited by Chisel (08/11/10 09:37 PM)

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#206226 - 08/16/10 12:19 AM Re: cash in your BOB [Re: Chisel]
Mark_M Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 295
Loc: New Jersey
I have $250 in my EDC, another $250 in the Get Home bag in my truck, and $500 in my BoB. Since I also carry at least $250 in my pocket, that gives me quick access to between $500 and $750 when I'm out and about, or $1,250 if I can get home.

Having weathered some mini-disasters where cash was not immediately accessible, I keep between $1,500 and $3,000 cash in my safe at home. It also is convenient for paying tradesmen and contractors, who typically give a good discount and preferential scheduling when paying cash. I generally throw another $100 in the safe each paycheck, and then invest half when it gets to $3,000.

Recently I've been buying silver and gold coins for investment and preparedness reasons, mostly Silver Eagles and 1/10 Gold Eagles. I now have about $2,000 in silver and gold coins in my home safe. I try to add a few more whenever there's a dip in the market, or when I have enough disposable cash to warrant an order large enough to get a good rate.

So all total, I have about $5,000 I can draw on if SHTF, assuming I can get home to my safe.

Did I mention my safe is embedded in the concrete foundation of my home and well hidden, that I have a very protective dog, and several firearms within easy access?
_________________________
2010 Jeep JKU Rubicon | 35" KM2 & 4" Lift | Skids | Winch | Recovery Gear | More ...
'13 Wheeling: 8 Camping: 6 | "The trail was rated 5+ and our rigs were -1" -Evan@LIORClub

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#206231 - 08/16/10 12:43 AM Re: cash in your BOB [Re: Chisel]
Mark_M Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 295
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Chisel
As a matter of fact, I have so far stubbornly refused bank advertisements and junk-mail SMS ..etc. to have their credit cards. I may go for debit cards though to purchase stuff from the U.S. Other than that, cash is both comfortable and suitable to my stressful lifestyle.


You might want to re-think this strategy. As long as you pay your credit card each month it will cost little or nothing, maybe $50-75/year for card membership. At least in the states, there are cards that will pay you back for using the card between 1 - 2.5%, sometimes even higher for special offers. This is competitive with or even better than most savings accounts and does not tie-up your capital.

The danger with debit cards is that if a merchant makes a mistake or commits fraud, that money is GONE from your account. You have to fight to get your money back, and in the meantime may incur overdraft or insufficient funds penalties if the cash to cover legitimate transactions isn't in your account. In my experience, the banks are difficult to deal with regarding these disputes, and worse, have no qualms about seizing funds from any other accounts to cover the shortage in your disputed account. By the time you get the dispute resolved and the cash credited back to your account, you may have racked up several hundred dollars in overdraft and returned transaction fees from your bank and other payees that had your payments returned, which can take months to resolve.

Add to this the fact that security is so lacking in the ACH system used for debit transactions that it is amazing that fraud isn't more widespread. Basically any ACH-approved merchant, or person who opens an account with an ACH processor, can access your funds without a password, PIN code, signature, or any other proof of your authorization. All they need is your debit card number and expiration, or bank routing number and account number.

Personally, the only places I use a debit card are in my bank's ATM's. For everything else I use cash or credit, and just pay the credit cards off as soon as the bill arrives.
_________________________
2010 Jeep JKU Rubicon | 35" KM2 & 4" Lift | Skids | Winch | Recovery Gear | More ...
'13 Wheeling: 8 Camping: 6 | "The trail was rated 5+ and our rigs were -1" -Evan@LIORClub

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#206278 - 08/16/10 05:24 PM Re: cash in your BOB [Re: Mark_M]
chaosmagnet Online   content
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2948
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Mark_M
The danger with debit cards is that if a merchant makes a mistake or commits fraud, that money is GONE from your account.


With debit cards you are guilty until proven innocent. The money is gone and you can end up liable for fraudulent charges under many circumstances, with no limit on the amount.

With credit cards, federal law is that you're innocent until proven guilty. An assertion of an erroneous or fraudulent charge immediately suspends any attempt to collect the disputed monies, and the credit card company cannot hold you liable for fraud over $50 (most cards have a policy reducing that to $0).

My credit union sent us debit cards to replace our ATM cards; I insisted that they be replaced immediately with ATM-only cards.

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#206284 - 08/16/10 08:08 PM Re: cash in your BOB [Re: Mark_M]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2148
Loc: Bucks County PA
Debit cards are BAD NEWS. Take it from me, I used to be "in the business" and they are totally stacked against you. A prepaid credit card is much better if you don't have good credit.

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#206330 - 08/17/10 03:45 PM Re: cash in your BOB [Re: MartinFocazio]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
$1k is in my BOB. But I rarely have more than $20-40 in my pocket.

Also I've heard that for an international bug out scenario (e.g. to flee from a local war, revolution, civil unrest etc, and to settle in some other country) it was advised to have around $10k on hands. I only hope that USD will stay solid to be gladly accepted worldwide in this unstable world's economy.

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#206335 - 08/17/10 05:33 PM Re: cash in your BOB [Re: MartinFocazio]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2823
Originally Posted By: martinfocazio
Debit cards are BAD NEWS. Take it from me, I used to be "in the business" and they are totally stacked against you. A prepaid credit card is much better if you don't have good credit.


Some banks are better than others, a smaller more local bank will put the $ back until the outcome the investigation. But you have to be dilligent to catch it too, I sign in my online banking daily. If your someone who never does and you sit down once a month and write checks for bills then you may never know someone got your card number until that day. I had a card # copied by a gas station attendant when I was using a pay at the pump (so the gas station attendant never saw me or physically touched my card). I've had another card number stolen though a yahoo's wallett when I checked the "do not save" option but it did anyway. I've caught it within a day since I check often.

I do use debit cards but split my pay into two different accounts at two different banks and each one has all the bill pay info so if one card were stolen/lost/ bank's systems down I could run from the other.

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#206376 - 08/18/10 12:24 AM Re: cash in your BOB [Re: Eugene]
Byrd_Huntr Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1160
Loc: MN, Land O' Lakes & Rivers ...
[quote=Eugene
I do use debit cards but split my pay into two different accounts at two different banks and each one has all the bill pay info so if one card were stolen/lost/ bank's systems down I could run from the other. [/quote]

We have a similar setup. My DW and my paychecks are electronicly deposited 75% into our household account, and 25% to a reserve account at another bank. All ATM, gas, groceries, and automatic payments come from the household account. There are no electronic withdrawels from the reserve account (except possibly some checks converted), and checks written against it are used very rarely, and then only to pay utility bills, boost the household account, or pay taxes if we get short in the household account.

I have steadfastly refused to use personal credit cards on principal, but after reading some of these posts, I am starting to realize that some things have changed and I need to rethink the strategy.

Thanks to the new banking bill, my bank now holds all checks for four or five days before posting, but debits are extracted at the speed of light. They also just lost a lawsuit in CA for rearrainging debits to pay the largest first in hopes that the account would dry up quicker and they could charge $15 to $20 for each smaller cash advance thereafter until the automatic paycheck deposit comes in to cover. I used to go online and check, and if short just write a check from my reserve account to cover immediately. That doesn't work any more with the four or five day wait to credit checks.

I think it's time to put up the debit cards and get another credit card for DW and take the one out of the safe for me. Makes sense to use the protections available and get aweay from the debit card scams, and stay disciplined and pay the balance each month.
_________________________
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