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#206252 - 08/16/10 11:26 AM Re: Policy on knives contributed to BP oil rig deaths? [Re: M_a_x]
falcon5000 Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 662
I know generally speaking, most of, if not all the big company's I worked for, when a ban is in place it usually is because of an incident. A knife for example may have stemmed from several people over the past slipped when cutting something and injured themselves where they were probably flown back to land for further treatment (stitches, etc..) I doubt insurance policy's are responsible, I have worked in many sensitive fields and we were allowed to carry knives until a government agency banned them due to a security threat. My current working environment is very effective with it's policy, they have no problem with knives under a certain length as long as it's kept hidden and used for the job. If you go against any of their safety policies, they and their insurance company will not pay a dime. This gives the employee a Hugh incentive to follow there safety guidelines because the bottom line is if you get hurt and you were not following there safety rules, then you will pay full medical costs. I love this policy and think it should be standard, there is nobody treating you like a child by watching over you every second, they treat you like adults and rely on your good judgment. The bad ones are weeded out very quickly.

In the case of the rig, if I had been on that rig, I would have a knife on me. I doubt they get searched going to and from that rig. It is up to the user to take the risks and if I'm in a position where my life may be in jeopardy if I don't have one, I will carry one or look for another job as well. Their are also loop holes in a lot of policies like carrying a knife, fork and spoon for your lunch. Many do not specify what kind of knife you have to have for cutting the steak you brought for lunch.
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#206293 - 08/17/10 12:26 AM Re: Policy on knives contributed to BP oil rig deaths? [Re: falcon5000]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Quote:
If you go against any of their safety policies, they and their insurance company will not pay a dime. This gives the employee a Hugh incentive to follow there safety guidelines because the bottom line is if you get hurt and you were not following there safety rules, then you will pay full medical costs. I love this policy and think it should be standard, there is nobody treating you like a child by watching over you every second, they treat you like adults and rely on your good judgment. The bad ones are weeded out very quickly.


In my experience such policies, using insurance, and the threat of nonpayment for injury, to control employees has exactly the opposite effect and profound consequences for employees.

The typical result is a very extensive rulebook which almost nobody understands, but which everyone is well documented as having read and understood. Signing the last page of the policy manual you are issued, effectively swearing you have read and understood it all, and having it files at HR is a handy way of doing this.

Then, on the job, there is a general lax attitude. And management knows that if you examine any incident closely every person near it will have broken at least one of the rules. So the insurance company pays nothing and the insurance rates stay nice and low. In effect it is a return to the good old days when there were no occupational safety rules and if a employee gets injured you turn them out on their ear and pay nothing.

The employees are placed in the bind that if they don't work fast and dirty they get fired for a 'lack of production'. But if there is an accident they don't get protection because their shoes weren't tied in the 'policy approved manner'. Everyone is a sinner so nobody gets saved; if you don't have connections.


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#206296 - 08/17/10 12:52 AM Re: Policy on knives contributed to BP oil rig deaths? [Re: Art_in_FL]
falcon5000 Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 662
I agree with what you say art, this is the first job that I have had this policy. Since working here we've had serveral accidents that the comany had no problem paying for the injuries, there is definitely room for them to abuse the system but we've been fortune that has not happened. Most everybody that works with me loves the policy . I guess its a preference thing and it works great in our environment we have had no incident s where they did nott cover us.
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#206369 - 08/17/10 11:56 PM Re: Policy on knives contributed to BP oil rig deaths? [Re: falcon5000]
pezhead Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 76
Loc: Minnesota
Being in the optical business I use box cutters and screwdrivers. I did more damage to my hands with the screwdrivers last week. When they slip off the glasses your assembling they tend to find your finger.

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#206511 - 08/20/10 11:51 AM Re: Policy on knives contributed to BP oil rig deaths? [Re: MostlyHarmless]
Bill_G Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/06/08
Posts: 92
Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
Originally Posted By: Blast

I'm trying to track down more information about this through contacts inside these companies. Hopefully someone will tell me something.


I am very curious if the reason for the ban (if it existed) was because someone viewed knives as weapons or if they were included in an all-over "no foreign metals whatsoever on the rig" policy due to explosion hazard.


The "explosive hazard"/spark causing angle was my first thought/question.

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#206524 - 08/20/10 02:44 PM Re: Policy on knives contributed to BP oil rig deaths? [Re: Bill_G]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By: Bill_G
Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
Originally Posted By: Blast

I'm trying to track down more information about this through contacts inside these companies. Hopefully someone will tell me something.


I am very curious if the reason for the ban (if it existed) was because someone viewed knives as weapons or if they were included in an all-over "no foreign metals whatsoever on the rig" policy due to explosion hazard.


The "explosive hazard"/spark causing angle was my first thought/question.


I actually doubt that, considering a) there always seems to be some sort of welding going on somewhere on the rig and b) a huge inventory of tools are needed to keep the rig running and I doubt any company would pay the cost of having them all non-sparking.

No luck yet in getting any info from my friends at BP and TransOcean. Seems they don't want to talk about it...

-Blast
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#206527 - 08/20/10 04:23 PM Re: Policy on knives contributed to BP oil rig deaths? [Re: Blast]
DesertFox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 339
Loc: New York, NY
I did have the opportunity to visit the DDII (drilling the second relief well) back in June when I was there with the USCG. To tell the truth, I wasn't looking for knives, but spark hazards didn't seem to be a concern. There is plenty of heavy equipment being operated and drill pipe, etc. being moved around and assembled or disassembled.

Of course, conditions undoubtedly change when they hit the oil reserve.

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#206633 - 08/23/10 01:24 PM Re: Policy on knives contributed to BP oil rig deaths? [Re: DesertFox]
TANSTAF1 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 25
Loc: Born in ME, in exile in MA
I have analyzed and reviewed a lot of insurance policies. I have never seen one that has a (special, or any, for that matter) exclusion for knives, guns, whatever. if you are referring to worker's compensation, the coverage must follow statutory law (in the US) or USL & Harborworkers/maritime/Jones Act for offshore and those do not exclude knives, etc. So there can be safety reasons, but citing insurance as the reason is bogus.

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#206651 - 08/23/10 08:34 PM Re: Policy on knives contributed to BP oil rig deaths? [Re: TANSTAF1]
falcon5000 Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 662
I agree, i have worked several jobs that are extremely hazardous and much more deadlier than an oil rig and i was never restricted from carrying a knife. I have worked with brass tools in a explosive environment to keep from sparks and also in a suit in a 100 percent nitrogen environment to keep any sparks from generating but i still had my knife on me. This is why i believe the restriction was because of people injuring themselves from their own knives.
_________________________
Failure is not an option!
USMC Jungle Environmental Survival Training PI 1985

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#206673 - 08/24/10 04:53 AM Re: Policy on knives contributed to BP oil rig deaths? [Re: falcon5000]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: falcon5000
This is why i believe the restriction was because of people injuring themselves from their own knives.


I am a bit more cynical than that: I believe such ban are put in place because someone somewhere in the management / human relations complex are afraid workers will hurt each other.

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