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#205783 - 08/09/10 02:06 AM Re: Guns in Yellowstone [Re: ponder]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Simple. Apparently the campground, while near Yellowstone, is not within the park. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

More sriously, campground rules are likely to be very different within the park, as opposed to CGs in other jurisdictions.
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#205794 - 08/09/10 04:42 PM Re: Guns in Yellowstone [Re: haertig]
cedfire Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 659
Loc: Orygun
Originally Posted By: haertig
Surely the criminals wouldn't take their guns inside Yellowstone. There are signs saying they're not supposed to do that. All the Yellowstone campers are therefore safe, and need not worry.


You got it. No worries. Isn't the pen mightier than the sword, anyway? LOL cool

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#205796 - 08/09/10 04:57 PM Re: Guns in Yellowstone [Re: cedfire]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
{deleted by request}


Edited by martinfocazio (08/10/10 12:44 AM)
Edit Reason: per request

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#205798 - 08/09/10 05:43 PM Re: Guns in Yellowstone [Re: MartinFocazio]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Probably time to close this thread then. I could not meet these requirements that have been set forth to justify talking about a whistle, much less a firearm. It might be best to start a policy that states "Any time the word gun or firearm is mentioned the thread will be closed". I would be fine with that. I wouldn't agree with it, but I would respect it. If that's what ETS forum wants, I understand.

BTW, I always carry a whistle on my hikes. When climbing one of Colorados 14'ers it's not so much needed for if you get lost. More so to warn traffic on the trail that you are stopping forward movement, lest you get stomped to death by the hoards.

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#205800 - 08/09/10 06:15 PM Re: Guns in Yellowstone [Re: haertig]
ponder Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 367
Loc: American Redoubt
I believe the thread has been hijacked!

The topic making current world news involves the threats against human lives posed by bears and escaped murderers in and about Yellowstone National Park.

If firearms or pepper spray are not equipment for survival, I don't know what is.

If there are those that are not comfortable with firearms, I most certainly recommend that they reframe from using them. They can always turn the other cheek. It works twice.
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Horseshoe Bend, ID
American Redoubt
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#205801 - 08/09/10 07:12 PM Re: Guns in Yellowstone [Re: MartinFocazio]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: martinfocazio
OK folks. Here's the Equipped angle on this.


QUESTION: Is a gun a valid piece of equipment to include in a survival kit given the most likely scenarios you'd encounter in a place like Yellowstone park?


THE ARGUMENT FOR:
If you think it IS a good and valid piece of equipment, please cite, with evidence, not hypothesis, past situations where a person successfully used a firearm in a survival-related matter while in a national park or similar wildland. Explain how the use of a firearm resulted in a person or persons surviving a situation that otherwise would have been fatal.


This video and article are self-explanatory:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjHiu4RWMBk
http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/06/22/b-c-filmmaker-narrowly-escapes-grizzly-bear-attack/

=====

These cases are evidence of survival in an urban wilderness, which is appropriate given that this site has an Urban Preparedness Forum:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtrgFtf8QY0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7k_12sNcio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfDB1eVIgZw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzGY3sQbeJk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mmnnOV1ZYc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDpGQKfnkVg

There are many more. These real cases may not fit squarely into your narrow requirements, but real life doesn't fit squarely into your narrow requirements either.
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#205802 - 08/09/10 07:16 PM Re: Guns in Yellowstone [Re: ponder]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
{deleted by request}


Edited by martinfocazio (08/10/10 12:45 AM)

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#205803 - 08/09/10 07:24 PM Re: Guns in Yellowstone [Re: MartinFocazio]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: martinfocazio
Ponder,

We have ample cases where pepper spray has been used against bears and human beings.

There have also been cases where human beings have used firearms in self-defense, and these are documented as well.

The subject at hand is "escaped murderers in national parks" as a threat potential for your visit to Yellowstone and so on.

If we take the class of people we're concerned with as
A. "escaped murderers" or the a sub-class within that set
B. "escaped murderers who kill others while escaped" or further refine that to
C. "escaped murderers who kill others while escaped and in national parks"

The decision factor here is if you consider scenario "C" as one that is of sufficient probability to warrant carrying a firearm or now.

You add to this risk assessment the threat level you see from aggressive wild animals, in particular bears and you then come up with a total threat level where you would consider a firearm a piece of gear worth the weight and size in your kit.

You then add in the utility of the tool against other threats you might face, including hunger or a need to signal others in an emergency.

In my threat assessment, scenario "C" is highly unlikely, however, threat levels from wild animals are higher, and the need to signal or obtain meat higher still. So in my assessment, "C" is one of the smallest factors that contributes to packing a firearm - but I do pack one because it's a versatile tool for more than one reason.


Above, you said real cases, not hypothesis.

Is it OK to discuss theories or not?
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#205807 - 08/09/10 07:55 PM Re: Guns in Yellowstone [Re: ireckon]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
{deleted by request}


Edited by martinfocazio (08/10/10 12:45 AM)

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#205808 - 08/09/10 08:00 PM Re: Guns in Yellowstone [Re: MartinFocazio]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: martinfocazio
So, you advocate carrying a firearm, and you cited specific and object reasons why in support of your position.

Fits very, very well into my "narrow" definition and is a perfectly acceptable and good contribution to a volatile topic.

Thanks.


OK, it's hard to tell tone over the Internet. I originally thought you were trying to be impossible above. It's all good.
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