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#205530 - 08/03/10 04:29 PM Re: Seattle GHB [Re: Lono]
wolfepack Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 52
Loc: Lynnwood, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: Lono
Wolfepack, please don't take this as a rotten tomato, but given where you are working I want to emphasize one thing that should be a bigger part of your preparations: you will likely be dead or injured, and less likely to emerge from a typical Seattle quake unharmed and be able to walk home. Sure, if another Nisqually quake strikes 40 miles from us, everything will shake, but also the transportation system will remain intact, so the long walk home should remain academic. And truth be told, many Seattle Earthquakes (TM) resemble the Nisqually - disruptive more than destructive. When we have the serious earthquake we're capable of though, all hell breaks loose, and the rules of architecture are suddenly writ large on the landscape, in new and graphic detail. A building that is estimated to 'lose its outer walls but have its floors remain standing'? On Western Avenue, adjacent to the Alaskan Way Viaduct? Really?? I would be skeptical of that, and fwiw would investigate your building architecture more closely. You may be in an unreinforced masonry building, or it may have received a retrofit, which is good, but recent studies have called into question the adequacy of retrofitted URM structures. After all, your first step is to survive the quake, and get out the door, then down the street, past every other building in your vicinity. That's suddenly a bigger problem than you imagined if you are crushed beneath flood slabs. Your GHB with you. Whoever finds it will likely toss the dross and focus on whatever water, food and first aid survives.


I guess I am not quite sure what you are recommending I do in place of or in addition to my get home plan. While there is probably a 75% chance I won't even survive a major quake, or maybe a 90% chance that even if I do survive I will be to injured to go anywhere, I'm not just going to say the odds are bad, I'll do nothing. (those percentages have no basis in fact, but are what I mentally picture). I can't do anything about improving the survivability of the building, nor do I have much say in where I am located within the building. The best I can do is try to be aware of the building and have some idea of where major supports and exits are. I was not thinking of EQ dangers when I took this job, though it will probably be a factor in future jobs. Leaving this job for one better located is probably not a real option at this time. Heck, I feel lucky to have a job at all in the current economic climate. I can see that laying in additional preps to deal with traumatic injury would be good. However, if I am the one with the traumatic injuries, then all else is probably for naught. I am certainly not so far detached from reality that I think I can still make it home if my legs have been crushed. If I am badly injured, then I am going to do what I can for myself and then try to survive long enough for some sort of help to find me. I imagine if my injuries are really serious, I will die waiting the 3+ days it might take for somebody to get to me, but I'm not just going to give up.

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Thanks for all the links. I do like having information. Will look through all of it when I get the chance.

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Quibbling over Datrex or choice of TP on long walks home becomes an interesting intellectual exercise when you work in an old masonry building down on Western Avenue. Your neighborhood will resemble a war zone more than the peaceful waterfront place it is today. Again, if you survive intact the collapsing structures, liquefaction, fires, and a potential tsunami or seiche along the waterfront from the shaking, getting home to Lynnwood will be the least of your worries. If I were you, I would prepare more for personal injury and injuries of those working down the hallway from you, and the distinct possibility that you won't be moving more than a half mile from your work location until someone comes along to evacuate you. You may think and prepare as if you will walk away from your scenario unscratched, but what if you don't? Your architecture tends to dictate this more than your willing it to happen. Bandaids are cold comfort for broken bones and crush injuries. Think kerlix, and splinting material, and knowing how to use them.


Your point about having more trauma supplies and knowing how to use them are good ones and will beef up my work kit in that area.

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Also one more thing on shelters - no one is going to 'send you to a shelter'. You will be fortunate if there is a shelter that you can enter Wolfepack. If its cold and rainy, as it often is in Seattle, you would be fortunate to get in the door, there will be so many who want in. And the folks who run it will treat you with the respect and dignity you offer and that you deserve, although those like adequate post-EQ supplies will be in short supply. I don't pretend to know what you imagine goes on inside a shelter, but its food, water and warmth, which can be in very short supply otherwise. If you choose your tarp and your ground insulation exposed outdoors thats fine, you'll have plenty of company, in those first 48-72 hours they'll be using cardboard and blankets and mattresses and whatever else they can pull from the rubble to make do. Stay safe. Be realistic.


My images of shelters are probably entirely incorrect and are mostly based on media coverage of the Superdome after hurricane Katrina. Most people I talked to have all said they would rather be on their own then endure that. Beyond that probably hugely incorrect image, I have no idea what a shelter might actually be like. In the case of a large-scale emergency like a big earthquake that may displace tens of thousands of people, I can't imagine anyplace much beyond a big stadium where authorities could put that number of people. As I said though, I have no real facts to work on when it comes to large-scale shelters.

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#205531 - 08/03/10 04:36 PM Re: Seattle GHB [Re: LesSnyder]
wolfepack Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 52
Loc: Lynnwood, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: LesSnyder
as Lono said add some kerlix, betadine,jell burn pad, SF tourniquet,syringe for eye irrigation... last earthquake I was in was in the Philippines, but a lot of junk fell from the ceiling. I tend to overlook thermal and chemical burns when thinking first aid and they are very debilitating to travel. A small folding hack saw is in my GHB in case I need to open a chained gate. Since you have decided to forego firearms, I think I would store something like a small tomahawk head (hawking stick)or weighted mass that could turn you walking staff into a defensive tool. Might add a foil pouch or tin of tuna, eat the meat and use the remaining oil to heat some water, save the esbit tabs. You might think about pre dressing your feet with some duct (duck) tape... works well for our cross country team. regards Les


The additional trauma medical supplies and some training are good ones and I will work on that. I like the idea of adding some mass to my walking stick to make it a better defensive weapon. I am not quite sure your intent with the tuna. Are you suggesting this in place of the esbit stove or as some additional supplies?

The idea of "pre-dressing my feet with duct tape" is something I have never heard of. Actually I am not even sure exactly what you mean or what it is intended to do. I have heavy hiking boots with my GHB that I plan to change into before leaving the office. If I can't get to my boots, I probably can't get to duct tape either. Likely I am simpl not understanding what you mean. Always like to hear about new ideas.

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#205532 - 08/03/10 04:50 PM Re: Seattle GHB [Re: acropolis5]
wolfepack Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 52
Loc: Lynnwood, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: acropolis5
Wolfepack, you've got a pretty good and comprehensive plan. Here's my 2 cents: Some real-life first-aid training or at least read a good mannual and watch the Tactical Medical Solutions vids on U-Tube. More bandaging material, especially 2 "Izzy" battle dressings. A small survival/first-aid mannual. A good all-purpose sheath knife. My favorite for a GHB is the Gerber LMF II. A Katadyn water purifier bottle and a Ti cup fitted on. Even better would be a General Ecology XL pump water purifier. A couple of water filled, wide mouth Nagalene bottles. Not just pepper spray, but a medium sized can of bear repellant pepper spray in a nylon belt holster. As to a walking stick, I suggest an oak Canemasters crook neck cane, fitted with a convertible rubber/metal point tip (available from Leigh Valley or Treeline) along with a basic video on its use. Canemasters will install the tip, for a fee, if you send it to them with your order. Finally, as to cash, is it $200 or more? I'm not sure I understood your post. $1000, broken up would be best. P.S. Forget swimming! In case you ignore this advice, add 2 airline type inflatable vests. One for you and one for your pack. Best of luck.


Agree on additional medical supplies and training. My two first-aid kits (one to use/leave at the office, one to take with me) both come with first-aid manuals. My deck of survival cards, while sounding cheezy, has some good survival related info on them. A bigger first-aid book for the office is a good idea. Though at the rate the suggestions for first-aid supplies for the office are piling up, I might as well open my own trauma ward.

The walking stick is something I am still investigating. Will look at Canemaster you suggested.

As to cash, sorry if I was not clear. I have a total of $200 split into two $100 groups stored in different places in my GHB. My GHB is only intended to get me home. I have a bigger and better equipped BOB at home. $1000 in cash would be great, but I certainly can't afford to have that amount of cash just sitting idle at work for the next 10 years. Personally I think the chances of my GHB being stolen while it is stored at work are much higher than any emergency big enough that I would need the GHB. Just my own personal view though. Now if you happen to have an extra $1000 you could lend me, lets talk! smile

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#205534 - 08/03/10 04:55 PM Re: Seattle GHB [Re: xbanker]
wolfepack Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 52
Loc: Lynnwood, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: xbanker
Originally Posted By: wolfepack
there is some [water] in the vending machine I could "acquire".

Murphy's Law abounds. Don't ignore possibility that in your #1 scenario (earthquake), power loss could shut down vending machines. If your workplace has back-up generator(s), will they power essential functions only (to exclusion of vending machines)?


The "acquire" was my subtle way of saying break into the vending machine in any manner feasible and take anything I really needed or could be used by others. Wouldn't be my first choice, but if the supplies are needed (not just desired), then I'm not going to let a little thing like lack of electricity stop me. Murphy does live and will be king during any SHTF scenarios!

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#205539 - 08/03/10 05:27 PM Re: Seattle GHB [Re: wolfepack]
xbanker Offline
Addict

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 484
Loc: Anthem, AZ USA
Your initial gear list includes Sangean DT-180 AM/FM radio. Since information is king during emergency, and timely travel-route info is particularly crucial for you (identifying open bridges), would you be better served by substituting a small handheld multi-band receiver (providing access to more than just AM/FM ... police, fire, emergency responders).

Others living in your area can better comment on real-situation benefit, or does it merely sound good 'on paper?'
_________________________
"Things that have never happened before happen all the time." Scott Sagan, The Limits of Safety

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#205542 - 08/03/10 05:38 PM Re: Seattle GHB [Re: wolfepack]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3077
Quote:
What I consider the biggest obstacle to hiking home is having to cross the "Ship Canal", which is a canal for shipping which links Lake Washington to the ocean.


The George Washington Memorial Bridge probably wouldn't survive a major earthquake as it looks to be of a similar design to the one that fell down a few years back in Minneapolis. The Fremont Bridge looks to be a better bet and you should have somewhere to sit whilst you ponder how to make the crossing unless of course the Tsunami has swept it away. wink

Looking at the distance the swim would take to cross the canal from Google Maps looks to be about 50-60 metres so looks quite doable.


Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (08/03/10 06:40 PM)

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#205544 - 08/03/10 07:09 PM Re: Seattle GHB [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
LesSnyder Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1470
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
Wolfepack... the tuna oil comment was from my Boy Scout years (about 50 ago) I was fortunate to have WWII combat vets as scoutmasters, and a couple of things stuck with me over the years. One was care of your feet... the duck tape is proactive...apply duck tape to areas of your feet eg. heels, large and small toes, outside of foot where there is a probability of blisters occuring, especially if you are not accustomed to long treks before you depart. The tuna thing was to eat the tuna (back in those days most all canned seafood was in heavy oil)and then add some form of wicking to light the oil...we also carried a coil of paraffin filled corrugated cardboard in shoe polish tins that we used with GI metal canteens and canteen cups/stands for heat (we had a habit of planning outings in the rain). A $.12 block of paraffin was usually enough fuel for the weekend camping trip, though we typically built a traditional cook fire. regards Les

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#205547 - 08/03/10 07:29 PM Re: Seattle GHB [Re: xbanker]
wolfepack Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 52
Loc: Lynnwood, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: xbanker
Your initial gear list includes Sangean DT-180 AM/FM radio. Since information is king during emergency, and timely travel-route info is particularly crucial for you (identifying open bridges), would you be better served by substituting a small handheld multi-band receiver (providing access to more than just AM/FM ... police, fire, emergency responders).

Others living in your area can better comment on real-situation benefit, or does it merely sound good 'on paper?'


I had no idea that scanners were so small. I am less sure about the $300 price tag, but I can certainly see using it for a lot more than just getting home. One reason I did choose the Sangean DT-180 was for the small size, standard batteries, and great battery life. It is hard to tell from the pictures of the rx7, but it looks like it is about five times the volume and twice the weight as the DT-180. Also I can't tell if the AA battery pack replaces the internal rechargeable battery or is an external add-on. I do fully agree that I would prefer all the information I could get. Based on size and price I may rule it out for a GHB, but might be a good addition to my BOB/BOV. Are there other cheaper and/or smaller portable scanners out there? Don't know anything about this area. Thoughts from others on size/price/info trade-offs of a portable scanner for a GHB?

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#205548 - 08/03/10 07:38 PM Re: Seattle GHB [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
wolfepack Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 52
Loc: Lynnwood, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
Quote:
What I consider the biggest obstacle to hiking home is having to cross the "Ship Canal", which is a canal for shipping which links Lake Washington to the ocean.


The George Washington Memorial Bridge probably wouldn't survive a major earthquake as it looks to be of a similar design to the one that fell down a few years back in Minneapolis. The Fremont Bridge looks to be a better bet and you should have somewhere to sit whilst you ponder how to make the crossing unless of course the Tsunami has swept it away. wink

Looking at the distance the swim would take to cross the canal from Google Maps looks to be about 50-60 metres so looks quite doable.


My preferred bridges would be the University or Montlake bridges as they are closest to my preferred route home. Any info on how likely those are to survive an earthquake?

It is amazing what you can do with google maps. That is an excellent place to sit and ponder the best route to cross the river. I'll have to check that place out first hand. Did you stumble across that park bench or are you familiar with the area?

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#205549 - 08/03/10 07:43 PM Re: Seattle GHB [Re: LesSnyder]
wolfepack Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 52
Loc: Lynnwood, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: LesSnyder
Wolfepack... the tuna oil comment was from my Boy Scout years (about 50 ago) I was fortunate to have WWII combat vets as scoutmasters, and a couple of things stuck with me over the years. One was care of your feet... the duck tape is proactive...apply duck tape to areas of your feet eg. heels, large and small toes, outside of foot where there is a probability of blisters occuring, especially if you are not accustomed to long treks before you depart. The tuna thing was to eat the tuna (back in those days most all canned seafood was in heavy oil)and then add some form of wicking to light the oil...we also carried a coil of paraffin filled corrugated cardboard in shoe polish tins that we used with GI metal canteens and canteen cups/stands for heat (we had a habit of planning outings in the rain). A $.12 block of paraffin was usually enough fuel for the weekend camping trip, though we typically built a traditional cook fire. regards Les


I'm not sure that tuna oil makes a better stove than an esbit tablet, however the idea of having something like a can of tuna available to eat before I start out for home has a some merit. High quality proteins and some fats should help sustain me for a longer period of time. Course, I'm not quite as sure about starting out my march with the taste of tuna in my mouth. grin Though I am sure that will quickly be the least of my worries.

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