Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#204286 - 07/04/10 07:47 PM Re: lightweight two person bivybag [Re: BorkBorkBork]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
I agree 100% with what 3*Bork has to say about bivy bags / "wind bags" and their use. Not everyone who goes into the Scandinavian wilderness has one, but most people who do that often will bring one.

My primary bivy bag is described here in the "PSK sharing centre" thread. I have no augmented this piece of equipment with the AMK bivy bag, but that I view as an expedient, one time use only emergency center. My big bag is usually with me except on trips where it is totally unwarranted.

While my bag's primary role is as emergency shelter, it is usually employed as a wind break. It is VERY nice to whip up a wind break in 120 seconds whenever you shall have lunch in somewhat sub-optimal weather.

My wife and I have had lunch inside my ("our?") bivy bag in snowy weather (somewhat intimate, but we weren't complaining), but otherwise I consider myself lucky that I never have had to use it as an emergency shelter.


Edited by MostlyHarmless (07/04/10 07:50 PM)

Top
#204287 - 07/04/10 08:18 PM Re: lightweight two person bivybag [Re: Tjin]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

Are you looking for a bivi bag or bothy bag? The only 2 man bivi bag I've heard of was the Outdoor Research Advanced Double Bivy from around 10 years ago, but I cannot find a link for the product now. But here are some alternatives, which might be a little more practical especially if the kit is to be used for mountaineering purposes. I would forget about anything that is not MVP for bivi bag especially for 2 people.

http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/product-reviews/outdoor-designs-race-raider---first-look/2011.html

or if you think you can fit two in, how about one of these;

http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/shop/c...and-739298.html

Top
#204288 - 07/04/10 08:47 PM Re: lightweight two person bivybag [Re: BorkBorkBork]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Given that all the materials are pretty common, and a working bivy bag can be quite simple in design and construction, little more than a giant stuff sack in some cases, I would encourage you to look into making your own.

Start with a dead simple one, a glorified sack. Take this on a easy trip and modify materials and methods, and add features to fit your needs.

Perhaps start with a simple flat piece of coated nylon pack cloth about 5' wide and 12' long. Stitch on, or arrange buttons to hold a removable, thin microfiber liner over the entire piece. Then fold and sew a 6' long zipper up both sides. Treat the unit, minus liner, with a wash-in durable water repellent. Give it a go and modify or redesign as it takes your fancy.

The cloth is typically available in 59" widths last time I looked but you may want your bag wider or narrower. And the 6' folded length is just a shot in the dark. five foot may be more to your liking. Also, while a simple square bottomed bag is simpler it would be easy to taper the foot-end.

You could also think about using heavier material on the bottom even if this means you can't alternate use top-to-bottom to even out wear. Adding a bit of fleece to the foot under the liner might help. As would adding a pouch near the top on each side for stuff you might need at night.

Of course there two pretty big down sides to this sort of activity: First, it is your baby. If it fails, or fails to please, it is all on you. Up side of that if it works you get all the credit. Making your own gear, particularly when it is better than you could buy, lends a lot of credibility. Any dork with a trust fund can buy their way into good equipment. Those who can make their own are a cut above.

Second, once you start building your own you will never look at store-bought gear the same way. You notice little things like how manufacturers often add pockets in locations that make the item easy to assemble and look right. Usually centered and straight up and down. Which often ends up making the pocket less usable.

You will start to modify your gear. A pack will scarcely make it home before you start taking pieces off.

Top
#204299 - 07/05/10 06:34 AM Re: lightweight two person bivybag [Re: Richlacal]
Tjin Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1791
@Richlacal
Well a body bag is a bit to heavy (well the models i know are)...

@codyjack
The Ortovox Gemini Double looks interesting. I will have to look if it's availible in mine country.

@BorkBorkBork
I will not use the bivybag to substitue clothing, but since weight and weight is a big issue i will carry limited reserves. A tube tent or similair it to drafty and can not be used on its own.

I do not have any experians with the botty bags, but i'm not sure if it's the right choice for me, but the weight of the botty bags looks great...

@Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
I'm looking for a bivybag, not a botty bag. I guess the bivybag is a more mainland thing? but the botty bag does look interesting... 2 persons bivy bags do exsist. I have one, but mine is the basic, oversized waterproof stuff sac model. The hooped bivy's are to heavy and fancy.

@Art_in_FL
I already have most stuff i need. I just want smaller and lighter alternatives. Which makes it harder to DIY...
_________________________


Top
#204301 - 07/05/10 07:57 AM Re: lightweight two person bivybag [Re: Tjin]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: Tjin
@Art_in_FL
I already have most stuff i need. I just want smaller and lighter alternatives. Which makes it harder to DIY...


I beg to differ. Check into what the ultralight hikers are doing, a lot of them seems to arrive at the conclusion that the ligthest equipment is DIY or heavily modified.

The way I see it, if you have these 3 requirements
- A need/want slightly off the main stream market (and a 2-persons bivy bag appears to be)
- Good quality
- As lightweight and small as possible

Then your options are either ridiculous expensive or DIY.

DIY does not nescessarily means you'll be doing the stitching. I'm sure you can pay a seamstress to stitch together an old rainfly to suit your shape. Making a cheap model for testing might be a good idea anyway as it is much easier to see what works and what doesn't.

Top
#204303 - 07/05/10 08:26 AM Re: lightweight two person bivybag [Re: MostlyHarmless]
Tjin Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1791
Well finding the right materials is the hard and expensive part. I can't seem to find the right stuff locally. Importing them is expensive due to shipping, handeling and customs fee's.
_________________________


Top
#204320 - 07/05/10 05:24 PM Re: lightweight two person bivybag [Re: Tjin]
codyjack Offline
Stranger

Registered: 07/02/10
Posts: 11
Originally Posted By: Tjin

@codyjack
The Ortovox Gemini Double looks interesting. I will have to look if it's availible in mine country.


Here's a link to the manual.
_________________________
Visit my little blog to learn more about my EDC and survival gear.

Top
#204330 - 07/05/10 09:57 PM Re: lightweight two person bivybag [Re: codyjack]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
The weight of any unit is entirely up to you. There are few things a commercial manufacturer can assemble or use that you can't. Pretty much all the tools and materials are available.

Lightness is a function of the design and materials you chose to use. Smaller, tighter, designs with fewer add-ons like pouches, zippers, and reinforcements will be lighter. The materials and design you use will be a four-way trade-off between weight, durability and/or function, cost, and ease of manufacturing.

As DIY manufacturer you can take risks that would give a commercial producer a heart attack. To some extent a commercial manufacturer puts their reputation, and profits on the line with every unit sold.

You could simply stitch up a compact tapered treated nylon sack from the most diaphanous ultralight cloth available and have a two-person bivy that would last but one trip and have a bivy that is lighter than any commercial product.

You could start with the lightest sil-nylon tarp made, lay out on your back yard with your trip partner and have someone chalk the outline as you snuggle. Stitch up one seam and hem the top and you have your bivy. It will be about as light as you can get.

Picture a truncated cone shape about 6' long with a minimalist circumference roughly 8' at the top and 5' at the foot made of 1.1 ounce sil-nylon. At something less than 5 square yards of material you might bring it in at less than half a pound. You could save some money buying a sil-nylon tarp and stitching the one seam on a borrowed machine.

You might be able to get enough cloth to make it with one of these for $60 but it is going to be tight:
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___20068

This would be a very confining and hard to use minimalist unit with little margin for wear and abuse but it is hard to imagine one much lighter.

Heavier material, more elbow room, and amenities like a zipper or two, and draw cord would make it more usable and durable but heavier. What trade-offs your willing to make depend on you.


Top
#204333 - 07/06/10 03:42 AM Re: lightweight two person bivybag [Re: Tjin]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: Tjin
Well finding the right materials is the hard and expensive part.


Finding the optimum raw material might be hard and expensive, yes, particular if you have to ship internationally.

Can you find reasonably priced one person bivy bags in the kind of material you're looking for? Why not take two of them and stitch one-and-a-half of them together?


You could also be on the lookout for some lightweight surplus material around you. A "top-hat" for a car (used in winter time to keep frost from forming on the windows), a thin tarp or some cut-out from an old tent. It would be light enough to make do while you search for the optimum double bivy bag and/or raw materials in unobtanium.


Edited by MostlyHarmless (07/06/10 03:44 AM)

Top
#204340 - 07/06/10 05:47 PM Re: lightweight two person bivybag [Re: MostlyHarmless]
ducktapeguy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 358
Tjin,

I am not clear on your needs. Do you actually plan on using this for shelter, or is it a backup for emergencies? If your plan is to use this and rely on body heat for warmth, I would strongly reconsider and take a sleeping bag.

Have you slept in a bivy before? They don't provide any insulation at all, so if it's cold outside, you'll still be cold. I really can't imagine a 2 person bivy working very well, I doubt either person is going to sleep very well. Maybe that's why there aren't that many companies making them.

If this is just for emergencies, I would recommend two separate bags so each person carries their own. There is no real weight savings to having a double bag, I don't think it'll be much warmer, and you never know when you might become separated or one persons gear gets lost.






Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, cliff, Hikin_Jim 
January
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online
0 registered (), 290 Guests and 7 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
NiceOldGuy, Bishop68, Tin, Knobco, manimal
5331 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Offline: Be ready
by haertig
04:56 AM
Question from planet Mars
by Chisel
04:27 PM
Snowmobiler built a snow cave to survive
by dougwalkabout
01/23/21 05:46 AM
Things I have learned recently
by chaosmagnet
01/19/21 04:01 PM
Offline Maps App Thoughts
by rafowell
01/19/21 06:23 AM
Hiker missing for two weeks in Zion found alive!
by dougwalkabout
01/19/21 03:08 AM
Increase in infrastructure attacks
by wildman800
01/18/21 11:34 AM
Dash Cams
by MartinFocazio
01/18/21 01:34 AM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.