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#203994 - 06/27/10 06:55 PM Junk Stainless Steel ...?
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I'm noticing a substantial change regarding the cheapo stainless steel cups and water bottles I'm bringing home these days.

Used to be that when I got used stainless from a swap meet etc. I would bring it home and soak it in a strong bleach solution. This seemed prudent; you never know where it's been. The effect of the bleach on the steel itself was nil.

But I'm noticing that some of the thin Chinese-made stainless seems highly susceptible to corrosion. A bleach solution will start causing rust spots within minutes, and I have one canteen that developed a pinhole all the way through the so-called stainless steel wall.

I wonder if this is at all related to the "nickel pig iron" that China is producing to get around the price of high-grade nickel.

Anyway, heads up.


Edited by dougwalkabout (06/27/10 06:58 PM)

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#203997 - 06/27/10 07:09 PM Re: Junk Stainless Steel ...? [Re: dougwalkabout]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1418
Loc: Nothern Ontario
Doug, any brand names we should avoid?
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Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

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#204004 - 06/28/10 03:17 AM Re: Junk Stainless Steel ...? [Re: Teslinhiker]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I rather doubt you will see this in quality name brands. They specify the composition of their products (or they should anyway).

If it's stamped 18/8, for example, that's what it will almost certainly be. Even the cheap no-brand stuff used to be 18/8.

If it's not stamped or name-brand, though, it's buyer beware. Note that this new stuff will be usable in a lot of situations, especially for casual use; but I wonder about the effect of, say, a salt-water environment.

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#204009 - 06/28/10 04:54 AM Re: Junk Stainless Steel ...? [Re: dougwalkabout]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Chlorides, like bleach, are pretty hard on stainless steels. High concentrations, high heat, and extended exposure times can in time pit even quality 316 stainless steel.

The manner of corrosion, pit corrosion, works in a way that makes metal thickness far less of an asset than it might otherwise seem. Even steel several inches thick can develop pinholes in shockingly short amounts of time.

http://www.cip.ukcentre.com/rust2.htm

Stainless steel containers that corrode in high concentrations of warm bleach may not be otherwise vulnerable to corrosion and may not be deemed defective or substandard given that they might give acceptable service as long as they are not soaked in bleach.

The same sort of narrow vulnerability may be seen in copper dishes to food acids and aluminum pots to copper.

An old dirty trick to sabotage a aluminum boat hull used to be to flip a copper penny into the bilge. Water and galvanic corrosion can produce a penny-sized hole in a shockingly short amount of time.

Point being that the aluminum boat hull may be extremely high quality otherwise but it is a known and accepted vulnerability of the material itself.

I would suggest that you might give these presumed low quality stainless items a shot in non-critical use to see how they hold up.

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#204010 - 06/28/10 05:03 AM Re: Junk Stainless Steel ...? [Re: dougwalkabout]
Richlacal Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 778
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Along with the cheaper mfg. of stainless steel,Is it possible that the Bleach is, More caustic than it used to be as well?I do know that Bleach&Stainless Steel,or any other steels,are not Best of friends at any time!If Blast should read this,I believe he will respond in kind as this Area is Very Familiar to him.

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#204013 - 06/28/10 06:39 AM Re: Junk Stainless Steel ...? [Re: Richlacal]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3148
Loc: Big Sky Country
Bleach will cause even very high grade "stainless" to rust in under 24 hours. Stainless Steel is really a misnomer- stain resistant is more realistic. If a steel has iron in it, it will eventually oxidize. To be called stainless a steel has to contain at least 13% Chromium, and that's all the name really means.
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#204098 - 06/30/10 12:57 PM Re: Junk Stainless Steel ...? [Re: Art_in_FL]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: Art_in_FL

An old dirty trick to sabotage a aluminum boat hull used to be to flip a copper penny into the bilge. Water and galvanic corrosion can produce a penny-sized hole in a shockingly short amount of time.

Interesting -- I hadn't heard that one. I assume it's a salt-water reaction?


Quote:
I would suggest that you might give these presumed low quality stainless items a shot in non-critical use to see how they hold up.


Agreed, these items still have value for casual use. I'm only paying a buck or so for them (used), so I have no major gripe. I just wanted people to be aware of an observed weakness.


Edited by dougwalkabout (06/30/10 12:58 PM)

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#204103 - 06/30/10 03:05 PM Re: Junk Stainless Steel ...? [Re: dougwalkabout]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
there are lots of good ways to clean and/or disinfect without using high concentrations of bleach for long periods. Vinegar does a good job, as do boiling water, isopropyl alcohol, betadine, and sunshine. I admit to a tendency to drown stuff in clorox, but it is a product of the er nurse philosphy that, if one is good, four is better, and a pathogen cannot get too dead.
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#204105 - 06/30/10 03:18 PM Re: Junk Stainless Steel ...? [Re: dougwalkabout]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
It sounds that you may be right that some of the lower grades of Stainless steel such as Chinese made 200 series grade are making it into supposedly food grade utensils such as cups, bottles and vacuum flasks.

Even then it is not a good idea to use Hypochlorites (Bleach) for disinfection even with 304 and 316 food grade stainless. There are other ways to clean and disinfect such as steam cleaning.

http://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=45&featured=1

Quote:
Is 316 type the only stainless steel that is classed as the 'food' grade?

The '316' grades (1.4401 / 1.4404) are often referred to as the 'food' grades.
There is no known official classification for this and so, depending on the application, the equally common 1.4301 and 1.4016 grades may be suitable for food processing and handling, bearing in mind that in general terms the corrosion resistance ranking of grades can be taken as: -
1.4401/1.4404 (316 types) > 1.4301 (304 types) > 1.4016 (430 types)


http://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=91

304 is referred to as 18/10 or 18/8
430 is referred to as 18/0

The surface finish of many stainless steels also have an important function to the corrosion resistant qualities.


http://www.bssa.org.uk/cms/File/surfacefinishbssaVer2.pdf





Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (06/30/10 03:26 PM)

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#204122 - 06/30/10 08:19 PM Re: Junk Stainless Steel ...? [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Interesting links. Thanks!

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