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#202824 - 06/01/10 10:24 PM Re: Would You Do It? [Re: MostlyHarmless]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2531
Loc: Big Sky Country
Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
[quote=comms]
I hold the view that I can't be morally responsible for other people's failure to prepare for power outage.


I think you're morally responsible when you cause the power outage. I can't be held morally responsible for you not wearing a parachute, but I'm still responsible for throwing you out of a plane.
_________________________
“You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.” Naguib Mahfouz

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#202827 - 06/02/10 12:00 AM Re: Would You Do It? [Re: JohnE]
speedemon Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/13/10
Posts: 98
Originally Posted By: JohnE
Originally Posted By: speedemon
If its the choice between life and death, as in I see no reasonable way I would live without cutting it down, then yes I would. Sorry, but my desire to live would override the possible harm done to others. People in isolated towns like that should have the capability to survive without power for a little while.

If I've got food enough, or a way to get food, I'd simply start following the power lines. They have to go somewhere.


So long as you're willing to accept the punishment doled out if someone should die due to the incredibly selfish act you've committed.

After all, people who venture out in the woods should have the capability to survive without being rescued for a little while...right?

So you would rather die in that situation because you think there could be a chance that somebody might be hurt due to a power outage? Go for it. Frankly a reply like yours seems exceedingly smug, to think you are so morally superior to someone when you really have no idea what you would do until you were put in that situation yourself.

And of course people should be prepared when they venture away from civilization; regardless of how prepared you are, stuff happens. Planes crash, electronics fail, stuff breaks, etc. You can act superior to everyone and think that you have every situation covered, but the fact is nobody can be prepared for everything at every given moment in time.

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#202828 - 06/02/10 01:25 AM Re: Would You Do It? [Re: speedemon]
Byrd_Huntr Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1174
Loc: MN, Land O' Lakes & Rivers ...
Originally Posted By: speedemon
[quote=JohnE][quote=speedemon]
So you would rather die in that situation because you think there could be a chance that somebody might be hurt due to a power outage? Go for it. Frankly a reply like yours seems exceedingly smug, to think you are so morally superior to someone when you really have no idea what you would do until you were put in that situation yourself.

And of course people should be prepared when they venture away from civilization; regardless of how prepared you are, stuff happens. Planes crash, electronics fail, stuff breaks, etc. You can act superior to everyone and think that you have every situation covered, but the fact is nobody can be prepared for everything at every given moment in time.


The article really does not give us enough technical information to make a solid determination, or any basis to judge each others responses harshly. That said, I cannot imagine a scenario for myself that would justify destroying infrastructure and putting others at risk in this manner. I don't know this particular area, but I do know that if you have an aluminum fishing boat and drag it up, tip it over, and prop up the bow, you have a fine shelter. If you have a lake, you have water. If you have fishing gear, you have food. If you have wood, an axe, gasoline, a spark, and the energy to chop down four utility poles, you have fire. He had at least these several things and probably more. As the (presumably) Native Canadian gentleman said, build a big fire and wait. But, as you say, I don't really know what I would do. wink
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The man got the powr but the byrd got the wyng

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#202829 - 06/02/10 01:41 AM Re: Would You Do It? [Re: speedemon]
EMPnotImplyNuclear Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 355
Originally Posted By: speedemon

So you would rather die in that situation because you think there could be a chance that somebody might be hurt due to a power outage? Go for it. Frankly a reply like yours seems exceedingly smug, to think you are so morally superior to someone when you really have no idea what you would do until you were put in that situation yourself.

And of course people should be prepared when they venture away from civilization; regardless of how prepared you are, stuff happens. Planes crash, electronics fail, stuff breaks, etc. You can act superior to everyone and think that you have every situation covered, but the fact is nobody can be prepared for everything at every given moment in time.

The man said don't forget you have to live with the consequences.
Do what you have to to survive, but remember you have to live with the consequences.
It may be your conscience, it may be ostracism (think Donner party), it may be prison, but don't forget you have to live with your choices.

Save yourself, or save your baby? Someone else baby? Some stranger?




So me, speeddeamon and JohnE are stranded in a boat in the middle of the ocean. We're out of food and water. We have fishing gear, but haven't caught anything in weeks. There is no rain. Who becomes lunch? laugh laugh laugh laugh


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#202831 - 06/02/10 02:32 AM Re: Would You Do It? [Re: ]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Seems to me that chopping telephone poles, dry/seasoned wood, would be pretty hard. Usually wet wood cuts easy but is hard to split but dry wood is just the opposite. Cutting down four poles has to represent a fair amount of energy. I'm just not sure what the mile per pole ratio is. With that much energy he might have hiked out.

Then again perhaps he really didn't feel he had many options. Most of those woods, as I understand it, are monitored for fire. Setting a bonfire, well controlled of course, would pretty sure to get firefighters coming your way.

I would be pretty reluctant to chop down power poles, property damage and cutting power for entire communities isn't my style, but if that was really the only option I would do it. I'm just not sure it was his only option. Exhaustion, sleeplessness, starvation and desperation can make creative thought next to impossible. Sitting here, well fed and rested, it is easy to maintain perspective and think up alternatives. Second guessing people who were in a desperate situation is easy, but it isn't likely to be profitable.

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#202833 - 06/02/10 02:49 AM Re: Would You Do It? [Re: EMPnotImplyNuclear]
Richlacal Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 778
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Q-Who becomes lunch? A-Each of you cuts themselves on the topside of your arms,then position yourselves each at Starboard,Port,&Aft,allowing your blood to drip the perimeter of the boat,& splashing the water,of course you will have your fishing gear ready w/bloodsoaked cloth on the hooks.Let's hope that boat isn't a Rubber Liferaft,lol!

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#202836 - 06/02/10 03:29 AM Re: Would You Do It? [Re: Richlacal]
jzmtl Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/18/10
Posts: 530
Loc: Montreal Canada
Last resort, yes, but I'd try a lot other things first, like start a controlled fire.

For those want to follow the power line, places that remote you could walk along the line for a month without getting anywhere.


Edited by jzmtl (06/02/10 03:30 AM)

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#202837 - 06/02/10 03:49 AM Re: Would You Do It? [Re: EMPnotImplyNuclear]
speedemon Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/13/10
Posts: 98
Originally Posted By: EMPnotImplyNuclear
[quote=speedemon]
So me, speeddeamon and JohnE are stranded in a boat in the middle of the ocean. We're out of food and water. We have fishing gear, but haven't caught anything in weeks. There is no rain. Who becomes lunch? laugh laugh laugh laugh


Nobody becomes lunch (course we would need some live bait for the sharks wink )

My reply was meant in a more general sense, as in would there be a situation you would do it. In his situation, no I wouldn't, because I wouldn't need to (like I said, only if I saw no other way to live).
As for living with the consequences, anybody that's been a soldier in combat knows plenty about that. When the #*$& truly hits the fan, you act first to do what needs to be done to save yourself and your men, then worry about what the consequences are later.

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#202839 - 06/02/10 05:44 AM Re: Would You Do It? [Re: speedemon]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2531
Loc: Big Sky Country
What the hell did he chop them down with? shocked He was fishing or boating, right? I'm not really clear on the details...was he near his vehicle when he capsized? If so, why didn't he drive out? If not, who carries an axe but not a proper survival kit or signally gear? Again, we just don't have the details but if he had the capability to fell four power poles (no mean feat) then he probably had some other options. Oh, well...fools and children, right? Thru divine providence or dumb luck he was rescued and no one else was killed or injured. I guess that's something...
_________________________
“You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.” Naguib Mahfouz

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#202854 - 06/02/10 02:28 PM Re: Would You Do It? [Re: Phaedrus]
Compugeek Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 392
Loc: San Diego, CA
I'm in the "no" camp. Maybe I'd feel differently in the actual situation, but looking at it from my comfortable chair, and giving it serious consideration, I don't think I'd do that. If I have the means to chop down even one power pole, much less four, I surely could try to signal some other way. I wouldn't be comfortable with the chance of putting others' lives at risk.

Yeah, they should be prepared for a possible power loss if it's that critical to their survival, but that still doesn't give me the right to force that on them. Not even to save my own life.

OTOH, I'm not him, and maybe he truly had no other way to signal, due to lack of means and/or knowledge. I'm not sure I would have thought of this, and I applaud his ingenuity.
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