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#202039 - 05/18/10 04:59 PM Re: The second most important piece of equipment [Re: oldsoldier]
desolation Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 60
Loc: Sonoma County, CA
It seems that "equipped to survive" should most definitely include physical conditioning. While not nearly as romantic as preparing for an immediate survival situation, daily survival over the long-term includes lowering one's risk of heart disease, diabetes, cancer, etc., all of which include exercise and diet (or so the "experts" have conveyed). Really, what good is being equipped for a disaster if, at age 45, you drop dead of a heart attack because you had a real soft spot for bacon and your recliner?

I try to maintain a healthy level of activity (although it is currently time to ramp it up again). I'm 10 pounds over weight but working on it. I'm 37. The time of immortality is behind me. If I'm going to be equipped to survive, I need to take care of the ticker. I suspect it's even more important than having my PSK on me daily. Just food for thought.

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#202041 - 05/18/10 05:47 PM Re: The second most important piece of equipment [Re: desolation]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: desolation
The time of immortality is behind me.



And the limited warranty period ends completely at 50.


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#202043 - 05/18/10 06:08 PM Re: The second most important piece of equipment [Re: unimogbert]
RobertRogers Offline
Survivor
Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 198
Too Funny. Actually, I am almost 50 and plan on sticking around for alot longer than that.
_________________________
FireSteel.com

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#202051 - 05/18/10 07:48 PM Re: The second most important piece of equipment [Re: RobertRogers]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
"Everybody gotta die sometime, Red."

It's not the quantity, it's the quality...
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#202074 - 05/19/10 06:39 AM Re: The second most important piece of equipment [Re: dougwalkabout]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Just a couple of points to consider.

I think a lot of people would be surprised at how far they can walk in a day if they had to, but even more surprised at how short of a distance they can cover in a week.
here is some discussion of Naismith's Rule for estimating time to hike a distance
Here is another thread on it at Backpacking light forum

Notice that Naismith estimated 3 miles per hour on level ground.

On a prepared road you might cover 30 miles in a 12 hour day (4 half hour lunch breaks), but if you are out of shape and carrying a pack it will likely drop to less than 20 miles. Possibly as few as 10 miles.
The likelihood of going more than thirty miles a day for more than three days is very small.
If you look up some of the famous forced marches you see they were usually pretty slow.
You might find the story of General "Vinegar Joe" Stilman's retreat from China into India interesting.
It took them 16 days to go 150 miles and they drove at least 50 (possibly 70) of those miles over 4 days.
That left at most 100 miles walked in 12 days.
Less than 10 miles a day by a group of young, fit men with the Japanese army chasing them.
Lacking the incentive of a bunch of armed men behind you and being less fit 5 miles a day is a more likely rate of travel over a long distance, especially if the route is rough at all.
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#202076 - 05/19/10 10:44 AM Re: The second most important piece of equipment [Re: scafool]
oldsoldier Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 742
Loc: MA
Scafool, in contrast to that is the story of the doomed SAS team in Iraq during the Gulf War-one of the members, after being compromised & using their E&E plan, was found dead in the desert, only a few miles from the border of Turkey, where he was headed. They estimate he ran roughly 127 miles I believe, in a couple of days. He died, IIRC, of heart failure-but, he ran for almost 2 days straight.
Again, this is a rare example-I think we all benefit by being fit. Every little thing we do that increases our chances, is good. Wearing a seatbelt, eating right, making the right contacts, having good gear-ALL of it is prior planning. And, I am sure we all know the 5 P's, right? smile
_________________________
my adventures

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#202080 - 05/19/10 11:40 AM Re: The second most important piece of equipment [Re: oldsoldier]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
First day mileage might be a happy surprise.

Second day's mileage after age 30 would be a disappointment.

Second day's mileage after age 50 would be pathetic.(that would have been me on Monday)

Not enough recovery time to do the same mileage the second day.
Recovery time is longer with age. (and boy how I hate that!)



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#202081 - 05/19/10 12:18 PM Re: The second most important piece of equipment [Re: unimogbert]
roberttheiii Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 393
Loc: Connecticut, USA
sca - Naismith's rule is fascinating and a great rule of thumb! This thread has got me thinking I should probably start hiking...

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#202082 - 05/19/10 12:32 PM Re: The second most important piece of equipment [Re: roberttheiii]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
I didn't see a factor for altitude. Have to derate your abilities when there is less air to breathe.

1000' elevation gain in 1/2 hr I've only achieved in the negative direction here in Colorado. More like 45 minutes (fresh and light load) to 1 hr with a real pack.

2 mph on trail and 1000' gain per hour has been my thumbrule for 20 years.

Have been down to 0.5 mph or less offtrail with pack.


Comment- Vinegar Joe Stilwell's troops weren't in good shape. Many had to cut the seats out of their pants so they could keep going with dysentary. Hopefully this is not a valid comparison to what ETS-ers are contemplating.

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#202084 - 05/19/10 12:54 PM Re: The second most important piece of equipment [Re: unimogbert]
roberttheiii Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 393
Loc: Connecticut, USA
I'm about to make a terrible confession - I don't have an assembled BOB, but I guess if I'm going to start hiking w/a pack, I should assemble one and see much it weighs...

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