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#201908 - 05/16/10 11:48 AM Re: The second most important piece of equipment [Re: Teslinhiker]
Byrd_Huntr Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1174
Loc: MN, Land O' Lakes & Rivers ...
Originally Posted By: Teslinhiker

Young age + physical condition + boasting of the ability to run 5 or miles does not come nowhere close to equaling the years of wisdom and knowledge gleaned from actual hands on outdoors (or urban) experience. If I had to choose a person to help me when the chips are down, it would be an easy pick...


I love when I can inject the tried and true controversy on this issue....would you rather be lost in the woods with Bear Grylls (pole vault over the Grand Canyon while doing a triple backflip somersault with a raw scorpion in his mouth)or Les Stroud (hunker down, make fire, find water, make shelter)?
_________________________
The man got the powr but the byrd got the wyng

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#201913 - 05/16/10 01:23 PM Re: The second most important piece of equipment [Re: Byrd_Huntr]
roberttheiii Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 350
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Byrd - Obviously Les Stroud, because he's awesome, that aside, I bet Les Stroud would give Bear Grylls a run for his money in terms of physical conditioning, he does, after allm participate in adventure races: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Stroud

That said, I think this whole post has gone a lot to "brains are better than brawn" which I hope everyone noted I conceded to in the original post. I'd way rather be smart than almost anything else. I'd rather be lucky than smart, if I was always lucky. wink

Anyways, it seems like most posters agree with this: Brains are best, but being in decent shape is important.

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#201914 - 05/16/10 01:30 PM Re: The second most important piece of equipment [Re: roberttheiii]
roberttheiii Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 350
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Also - Just because this keeps coming back to my age - I ran a 10k in February, I came in 274th (told you I'm slow) of the 273 people who finished before me roughly 70 of them were younger than me, that means 200 were older, including at least two individuals in their sixties and a dozen or more in their 50s. I really don't think physical fitness, particularly cardiovascular physical fitness, however you choose to pursue it, be it running, hiking, stairs, walking, etc, has to be about age!

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#201919 - 05/16/10 02:25 PM Re: The second most important piece of equipment [Re: roberttheiii]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
Having dealt with literally thousands of people in and immediately after emergency, survival and disaster situations, there is a trait or set of traits I'd rank higher than either intelligence/survival knowledge or physical fitness/endurance in contributing to a successful outcome. Mental and emotional toughness, resilience, flexibility and endurance are the traits that seem to correlate most closely with survival in adversity.

I've seen competitive level athletes in their prime fall apart and frail looking grandmothers in their 80's thrive in disasters. I've seen experienced outdoors-men fold up and highly educated physicians and tough street cops lose it under adverse conditions, while quiet suburban housewives and teenage drop-outs emerged as neighborhood leaders and towers of strength in times of trouble. You just never know how people are going to react to extreme, prolonged stress, until it happens. Some people do well initially, then seem to run dry of inner resources and give up, while others just need a little time or support at first to get their act together, then do fine thereafter. Many others, especially the pro's, go from can to can't, rest up, and go right back to it, time and time again. Generally speaking, most people do pretty good most of the time, and bring on their best game when the situation calls for it. Still, everyone, and I mean everyone, has their limits, and no one knows where theirs is on any particular day. May God grant that we never have to find out.

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#201920 - 05/16/10 02:45 PM Re: The second most important piece of equipment [Re: Jeff_M]
roberttheiii Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 350
Loc: Connecticut, USA
What do you do Jeff?

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#201923 - 05/16/10 03:31 PM Re: The second most important piece of equipment [Re: roberttheiii]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
I've had a variety of occupations: lawyer, college professor, paramedic, firefighter, and federal/state disaster response professional.

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#201925 - 05/16/10 04:00 PM Re: The second most important piece of equipment [Re: Jeff_M]
roberttheiii Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 350
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Ahh, so I assume in those latter three you had all the disaster experience. I'd read another post by you saying you'd gone to law school, so I was curious. Sounds like an interesting professional career.

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#201982 - 05/17/10 03:59 PM Re: The second most important piece of equipment [Re: roberttheiii]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
I am an ironman triathlete, marathoner, endurance athlete. I run a 6 minute mile, a 20 minute 5k, and a 4 hour marathon.

For GP (General Purpose) I went out last Saturday to walk or run for 24 hours. I stopped at 48 miles because I developed an IT band problem in my right knee. It started a few days before but I went out anyway. I thought it would go away as I warmed up but after 15 hours of pain I decided that for just a training day it wasn't worth it, even though I was still sticking to my pace per mile.

Ultimately at 15 hours, I found a bench to sit down and the words, "This sucks" just came out. At that point it wasn't so much to keep going or not, but it just wasn't fun anymore.

A couple months ago, again for GP, I also took a 42 lb BOB and airborne shuffled 10 miles home with it, to see how I fast I could go, how it would feel, all that. So I walk the walk when it comes to putting preparedness into action.

Before I get into the nuts of this thread, I will say the two things I missed more than anything was an icy liquid and a decent place to sit. There were no benches or seats on my route.

Mental attitude and emotional intelligence is more important than anything else. Fitness is absolutely necessary but not the defining characteristic of survival. Knowledge or wisdom, decision making, is vital.

I'd challenge anyone who thinks they can simply walk as far as they want to do it. No time limit, no distance. No special clothes. Just grab a pack and and go. See how far you get before you start thinking about how much time you've spent walking and have to get back. How much water you consume and start thinking about finding a place to refill. How many calories your putting in for energy. How do your feet hold up with your footwear, your back or your knees. Now vow to double that time before you stop. Its hard.

I am not convicting anyone. I wish I was smarter and didn't have to work as harder, as the saying goes. I mean look, if I was stuck injured or with injured people in the middle of the desert (my likely scenario) I think I could with my preparation, my knowledge and fitness walk to get help. I would rather punch the button my my SPOT or PLB and have the rescue come to me.

_________________________
Don't just survive. Thrive.

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#201984 - 05/17/10 04:20 PM Re: The second most important piece of equipment [Re: comms]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2177
Loc: Bucks County PA
Originally Posted By: comms

Mental attitude and emotional intelligence is more important than anything else. Fitness is absolutely necessary but not the defining characteristic of survival. Knowledge or wisdom, decision making, is vital.


Such an excellent post, so many great points. Thanks!

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#201985 - 05/17/10 04:32 PM Re: The second most important piece of equipment [Re: comms]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 876
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: comms


I'd challenge anyone who thinks they can simply walk as far as they want to do it. No time limit, no distance. No special clothes. Just grab a pack and and go. See how far you get before you start thinking about how much time you've spent walking and have to get back. How much water you consume and start thinking about finding a place to refill. How many calories your putting in for energy. How do your feet hold up with your footwear, your back or your knees. Now vow to double that time before you stop. Its hard.




Your 48 mile training jaunt is awesome.

This paragraph I find spot-on as my muscles are still aching from a 13 mile round trip stroll thru the hills up to 7000' on a pleasant day with only 20# on my back.
I was wearing my hiking footwear, had changes of socks, had water, had snacks and all my usual "just in case" stuff. It was a very nice day.

Still, I was happy to see the car after that final 600' climb. Would not have wanted to go another 3 miles (though I probably could have).

One cannot just walk until they get there - even if you're above average in fitness.
Other survival strategies have to come into play.


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