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#200417 - 04/18/10 02:52 PM Re: UK Airspace Closed - Volcanic Ash Disaster [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
KG2V Offline

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Registered: 08/19/03
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Thanks to Iceland, What happens in Europe, Stays in Europe

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#200486 - 04/19/10 12:03 PM Re: UK Airspace Closed - Volcanic Ash Disaster [Re: KG2V]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3077


Hmm, Dutch KLM test flights have shown no adverse affects on commercial airliners, yet UK airspace remains closed. But no worries though Gordo has sent in the Royal Navy's flag ship the Ark Royal to save the day in the best of the Dunkirk Spirit. Apparently we are all in this together made for a future fair for all.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8628878.stm

Oh BTW, there's an election campaign on at the moment. Now where on earth is that sarcasm smilie again. laugh

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#200489 - 04/19/10 01:15 PM Re: UK Airspace Closed - Volcanic Ash Disaster [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Compugeek Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 392
Loc: San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor


Hmm, Dutch KLM test flights have shown no adverse affects on commercial airliners, yet UK airspace remains closed. <snip>


A few test flights didn't have any "detectable" problems, so they want the restrictions lifted? But if a jet then finds a strata of denser ash and has to make an emergency landing, or crashes, they'll be screaming "It's not our fault, the government said it was safe to fly!"
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#200491 - 04/19/10 01:32 PM Re: UK Airspace Closed - Volcanic Ash Disaster [Re: Compugeek]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3077
Quote:
A few test flights didn't have any "detectable" problems, so they want the restrictions lifted? But if a jet then finds a strata of denser ash and has to make an emergency landing, or crashes, they'll be screaming "It's not our fault, the government said it was safe to fly!"


No one has ever died in an airliner crash from volcanic ash ingestion on turbofan engines of a jet liner even during the well published history of the KLM and BA jets that have effectively flown directly through the volcanic ash plume directly above an active volcano. I am currently directly under the invisible undetectable ash cloud right now and there is no ash fallout despite the propaganda and news media reports (Grampian local TV News usually can only report news stories about fish and football, of course they are going to cream themselves if they thought they could report volcanic ash falling out of the sky in the Shetland islands and making it to US news channel like CNN, Fox etc). Even the news media volcanic ash 'sunset' photos are bogus and just check out the the bottom photo on this link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8625813.stm

Just how misleading does that photo get for the ill informed public.

The test flights would have been through the darkest light pinkish brown smudges on the satellite photo, i.e. the worse case scenerio. Nothing happened to the test flights.


Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (04/19/10 01:45 PM)

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#200495 - 04/19/10 01:45 PM Re: UK Airspace Closed - Volcanic Ash Disaster [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1678
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
Quote:
A few test flights didn't have any "detectable" problems, so they want the restrictions lifted? But if a jet then finds a strata of denser ash and has to make an emergency landing, or crashes, they'll be screaming "It's not our fault, the government said it was safe to fly!"


No one has ever died in an airliner crash from volcanic ash ingestion on turbofan engines of a jet liner even during the well published history of the KLM and BA jets that have effectively flown directly through the volcanic ash plume directly above an active volcano. I am currently directly under the invisible undetectable ash cloud right now and there is no ash fallout despite the propaganda and news media reports (Grampian local TV news usually can only report news stories about fish and football, of course they are going to cream themselves if they thought they could report volcanic ash falling out of the sky in the Shetland islands and making it to US news channel like CNN, Fox etc). Even the news media volcanic ash 'sunset' photos are bogus and just check out the the bottom photo on this link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8625813.stm

Just how misleading does that photo get for the ill informed public.

The test flights would have been through the darkest light pinkish brown smudges on the satellite photo, i.e. the worse case scenerio. Nothing happened to the test flights.


Well a BA 747 (Speedbird 9) did get in to trouble in 1982. Losing all 4 engines and getting “ sandblasted’ by the dust. Fortunately they were able to restart the engines and land safely.
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#200497 - 04/19/10 01:56 PM Re: UK Airspace Closed - Volcanic Ash Disaster [Re: Tjin]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3077
Quote:
Well a BA 747 (Speedbird 9) did get in to trouble in 1982. Losing all 4 engines and getting “ sandblasted’ by the dust. Fortunately they were able to restart the engines and land safely.


The BA 747 flight in 1982 flew directly through the ash flume directly above the volcano in Indonesia, which had erupted a few hours before with no warning to make a course diversion around the volcanic plume. There is a difference between

http://www.amfearliathmor.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DSCF7023.JPG

and this

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8627956.stm



Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (04/19/10 01:57 PM)

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#200499 - 04/19/10 02:29 PM Re: UK Airspace Closed - Volcanic Ash Disaster [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Compugeek Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 392
Loc: San Diego, CA
Is "probably safe" good enough when it involves literally thousands of people?

Or do the economic considerations outweigh the (probably low) risks?


I'm so glad I am not responsible for any of those decisions.
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#200511 - 04/19/10 04:24 PM Re: UK Airspace Closed - Volcanic Ash Disaster [Re: Compugeek]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Here's a recent article on How Does Volcanic Ash Affect Aircraft .

I thought it might be affecting radar more than engines, but that wasn't true.

Sue

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#200522 - 04/19/10 05:43 PM Re: UK Airspace Closed - Volcanic Ash Disaster [Re: Susan]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Today's meeting of relevant EU (and some non-EU) ministers of transportation point towards a relaxation of the rules, identifying zones of low, medium and high ash concentration and allowing all, some or no air movements within those zones.

And... from Iceland the report is that the current ash release does not reach as high into the atmosphere. Most likely that ash will fall down before reaching mainland Europe. We still have to cope with whatever left of the high altitude ash, but that will eventually fall down or be transported elsewhere.


Now we just have to wait for the big volcano Katla to erupt. When that happens, it will put the current eruption into perspective. Historically, the record indicates that Eyjafjallajökul eruptions precede Katla eruptions (3 out of 3 so far, and this is eruption number 4 that we have historical records of). No one can can be 100% sure if that this will happen this time, though.


UK: "CASH! We want CASH! Send us our cash, not ash, you blimey dyslectic Icelandic idiots"
ICELAND: "Cash? Ooopps... sorry".
(For our non-European friends: Big Icelandic banks went bust and blew a lot of money from quite a number of British citizens. They are quite eager to get it back... )

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#200534 - 04/19/10 08:15 PM Re: UK Airspace Closed - Volcanic Ash Disaster [Re: MostlyHarmless]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 842
Loc: Colorado
Engine teardown or more flight hours after the damage has been incurred (and engine failures) may be needed to know.

NASA writeup of what the damage looks like even though it may be undetectable initially:

http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/volcanicash/03_NASADC8AshDamage.pdf

Just because no one has died yet from commercial airliners ingesting ash doesn't mean they could re-use the airplane.

How would overhauling the engines after each flight raise costs???


Edited by unimogbert (04/19/10 08:21 PM)
Edit Reason: more

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