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#200071 - 04/13/10 08:39 AM Be aware of tent fires!
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
A horrible accident in Salangen, Norway just a few days ago.

Grandmother, grandfather and four grandchildren having a great time, sleeping in their big comfy canvas tent. The grandfather awoke early and brought the gas stove outside to make his morning coffee in the crisp, beautiful weather. He does not know that the gas canister has leaked over the night, filling the tent with explosive gas mixture, as is the air close to the ground just outside the tent. When he lit up the stove - instant explosion which then instantly set fire to basically anything flammable - in particular the canvas tent and 5 synthetic sleeping bags with sleeping persons.

The grandfather did anything he could, cut the burning tent open, immersed himself into the flames and tried to do whatever he could. I don't know what exactly, but stuff like rolling sleeping bags out into the snow and try to cut burning sleeping bags off his grand children and wife comes to mind. The more I think of it, the more horrible the images in my mind. That grand father (55) died last night. His wife and four of their grand children are all treated for severe and life threatening burns. The list in medical terms:
Boy, 4, critical and unstable.
Girl, 6, critical but stable.
Girl, 9, critical and unstable.
Boy, 12, critical and unstable.
Wife, 55, critical but stable.


Their tent was pitched almost literary on the porch of the closest of several vacation homes, many of those in use over the weekend. They provided almost instantaneous help and called in the police and ambulance. I don't think any camper could have received better, quicker and more adequate response. Several of the responding neighbors have paramedic training, and as they were real close they came almost instantly. Local police and emergency response was shuttled with snow mobiles to the site. Short distances made responses real quick, with the exception of the rescue helicopter. (2 hours to arrive, but that chopter has to cover quite a distance to get there.


Let this be a warning to us all:
Synthetic materials and canvas burns quick, ignites easily and the damages are horrific. Particular a synthetic sleeping bag is a death trap. You need to take this seriously.

Consider putting the gas canisters outside the tent when you sleep. This will prevent gas buildup in the sleeping area. (You probably won't notice the smell of propane when you wake up, because you will have gotten used to the smell, so you ignore it).

Take care that all connections are either fully and tightly coupled or fully disconnected. For the tragic case above, the most likely cause is a halfway screwed connection between the gas canister and the stove.

Don't rely on the gas canister valve to work - at night, put it outside.

Keep sharp knives at hand whenever dealing with the combination of fire and tent.

Link to a reasonably OK news article:
Link (google translate)


Edited by MostlyHarmless (04/13/10 08:44 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling

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#200072 - 04/13/10 12:10 PM Re: Be aware of tent fires! [Re: MostlyHarmless]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Propane is a very dangerous fuel.
It is even worse than natural gas because propane is heavier than air and sinks to any low spots and stays.
At least natural gas floats up and away.

There are reams of safety information and advice everywhere about propane and we still have people blow themselves up with it every year.
In construction we don't even allow the stuff inside winter enclosures with heaters and we apply distance limits to buildings for it.

The valve on the bottle does not even need to fail for a leak to happen. It could be from a blown out pilot light or from an appliance valve being left on.

Oddly enough we consider it safe enough to use on forklifts in warehouses.

The grandfather broke a couple of extra rules too.
Propane stoves are not meant to be used inside. The same with the coleman fuel stoves.


Edited by scafool (04/13/10 12:18 PM)
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#200075 - 04/13/10 01:40 PM Re: Be aware of tent fires! [Re: MostlyHarmless]
airballrad Offline
Gear Junkie
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 248
Loc: Gulf Coast Florida, USA
This is a horrible tragedy.
My formative camping experiences were in the Scouts, and it was so ingrained in us never to have open flames or fuel in or near our tents that this boggles my mind. We used propane, but the cooking areas were always a minimum of 20' from sleeping areas, and no fuel or cooking equipment was ever stored in the tents. I guess people naturally want to protect their gear from the elements, but just as keeping food in a tent in bear country, I can't fathom keeping a camp stove in a tent.

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#200076 - 04/13/10 02:00 PM Re: Be aware of tent fires! [Re: airballrad]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC

That is terribly sad. Thoughts and prayers for the survivors and the grandfather's poor soul.

Never occurred to me to store propane in my tent.

Maybe he was concerned the stove and fuel would be stolen if left outside.

How dangerous is it to store propane canisters in an attached garage?


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#200080 - 04/13/10 02:54 PM Re: Be aware of tent fires! [Re: Dagny]
rebwa Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 295
Originally Posted By: Dagny


How dangerous is it to store propane canisters in an attached garage?



I wouldn't but I also live on acreage and have a well-ventilated shed that's a good distance from other buildings. If you have any place, even leaving them outside it would be safer. I have 4 of the 20Ibs canisters and usually leave one next to my grill year round, the grill is covered but not the canister and weather hasn't affected it. I don't exchange my tanks as my local farm store re-fills them at less cost than exchanging them so at least one of mine has spent a good deal of time outside with no damage outside of a little rust.

I have a camping grill that takes the one pound canisters and after leaving them in the shed for a five or six years or maybe more, some seemed to be empty so they may have leaked, which would make me a little nervous about them in an enclosed garage.

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#200084 - 04/13/10 04:57 PM Re: Be aware of tent fires! [Re: Dagny]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: Dagny

Maybe he was concerned the stove and fuel would be stolen if left outside.


Not at all. This is one of those close knit "everyone knows everybody" communities. Fear of someone stealing equipment left outside the tent is not a factor.


I cook inside tents, in particular when the weather is bad in the winter time. I am fully aware of the risks, and I do take what I consider adequate precautions. In fair weather I enjoy cooking outside. I think I share this attitude with lots of people who enjoy winter camping. Still, this is not something I recommend - it is all about personal responsibility and evaluating personal skills, risks and rewards.

As stated above, the leaking of propane is a special risk that you need to take seriously. It turns out it was used a 11 kg (25 pound) bottle that was left in the cold pit of the large tent (a lavvu, which is the sami version of tipi). Most likely the coupling between the bottle and the stove was only half-way on, enabling propane to seep out through the night, filling the cold pit and also seeping out into all low lying areas nearby. Conditions was apparently just right for that propane to go WROFF and ignite the tent and anything flammable inside it. In my view, your regular gas canister has plenty enough fuel to replicate this particular accident, so don't think you're safe because you don't drag 11 kg bottles of propane with you on camping trips.

But the lessons goes beyond propane. Even a trangia stove can cause havoc if you're clumsy - my pet scenario with those is filling a still burning stove (invisible flame), have the flames leap into the fuel bottle and then either have an explosion or spill burning fuel just about everywhere. White gas and paraffin stoves can produce really spectacular fire balls (so can a propane stove if you feed it liquid propane without knowing what you're dealing with). White gas fuel leaks are particular volatile. Wood stoves can throw sparks. Any stove can tip over. And so on and so forth. No matter the stove, synthetic sleeping bags and clothing ignite very easily, burn hot and melt into the skin.


Edited by MostlyHarmless (04/13/10 05:02 PM)

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#200086 - 04/13/10 06:14 PM Re: Be aware of tent fires! [Re: MostlyHarmless]
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
I'm confused, in the original account it states "... The grandfather awoke early and brought the gas stove outside..." if the stove was outside how did it ignite the tent inside?

And if the stove was being used outside, what does that have to do with the storage of propane tanks in a garage?

However it occurred, it's a tragedy.
_________________________
JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The Future/Leonard Cohen


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#200087 - 04/13/10 06:17 PM Re: Be aware of tent fires! [Re: MostlyHarmless]
martino910 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/02/06
Posts: 40
That is really sad.
Gas is very convenient, but we also have to be very careful.
I always leave the gas items in the truck, never in the tent when I camp.

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#200089 - 04/13/10 06:57 PM Re: Be aware of tent fires! [Re: JohnE]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: JohnE
I'm confused, in the original account it states "... The grandfather awoke early and brought the gas stove outside..." if the stove was outside how did it ignite the tent inside?


Propane gas lying stagnant at the ground, outside of the tent. In a crisp clear winter morning there's not air much movement. Lighting the stove set the outside propane on fire, which set the nearby tent + the propane inside the tent on fire + basically anything combustible inside that tent on fire.

Originally Posted By: JohnE

And if the stove was being used outside, what does that have to do with the storage of propane tanks in a garage?


After such an event it seems appropriate to discuss safety issues related to propane in general.

There are some obvious similarities, though: Leaking propane inside your house will fill the cellar, and any spark or ignition source will make a big WROF (rapid fire) or KA-BOOM (explosion), possibly destroying the whole house and certainly setting it on fire. Leaking propane in your tent will fill your cold pit and also lie as a low layer close to the ground, where you are sleeping. Any ignition and you have a WROF or KA-BOOM sound that sets the tent and your sleeping bag on fire.

So... the same principles of storage apply for a tent and a house: Outside. Well ventilated.


Edited by MostlyHarmless (04/13/10 06:59 PM)

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#200091 - 04/13/10 07:50 PM Re: Be aware of tent fires! [Re: MostlyHarmless]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA
i take a small Gaz lamp on canoe trips and on cool,damp nites run it in the vestibule of my tent to warm things up.bed time comes around i just turn it off and leave it there.maybe i'll set it outside from now on.

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