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#19791 - 10/06/03 01:46 PM Government recommends BOBs
Greg_Sackett Offline

Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 225
Loc: KC, MO
Now the government is telling us what we already knew:


What I find most disturbing is the comment the one detractor says about how it isn't the public's responsibility for their own safety, that the government should do it. That kind of attitude pretty much describes most of what is wrong in this country today (IMHO).

I think it is nice to see the government pushing people to make some preparations, although I personally haven't seen any of these advertisements. Hopefully a few people will take heed though, and take responsability for themselves.


#19792 - 10/06/03 05:09 PM Re: Government recommends BOBs
garrett Offline

Registered: 03/07/03
Posts: 249
Loc: North Carolina

Does it surprise you that someone would detract from this great idea? The guy who was against it, completly misunderstodd the whole context of the BOB. He is the author of a terrorism survival handbook? Maybe I need to read his book to see what he is talking about.

It makes me mad how we (people from all countries) have literally killed the idea of common sense and self reliance? I don't know, I just don't know.

I have mine, and if I see anyone who is without, I will share. Maybe I shouldnt though? Maybe I should allow the gene pool to thin a little....


On occasion of every accident that befalls you, remember to turn to yourself and inquire what power you have for turning it to use. - Epictetus

#19793 - 10/06/03 05:43 PM Re: Government recommends BOBs
Polak187 Offline

Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 1403
Loc: Brooklyn, New York
Lately everyone figured out that you can make big money by talking about NBC stuff. My ambulance corp receives about 6-7 letters a month from self thought "specialists" offering us seminars and courses and we can graduate with diplomas recognized nowhere. Prices vary from $700 to $2000 and depending where expert comes from sometimes lodging is requested. My EMT course about a year ago made a mistake of hiring such a guy guy to speak. I think that anyone in the class knew more than him based only on experience and book but somehow he looked more professional with power point presentation.


#19794 - 10/06/03 05:45 PM Re: Government recommends BOBs

I think that many see the "new" terrorist threat as something completely different from what we faced before. The idea that all terrorism is either "over there and we don't need to worry about it" or "so overwhelming that unless you have a tank, hospital and bunker in the hills of colardo" is pervasive. Certainly if you are within the immediate effect radius of a conventional explosive, chemical attack, bio attack or nuclear attack you may as well "kiss you a$$ g'bye". OTOH, if you are in one of the ever widening circles of evacuation that will be implemented in such circumstances (which, BTW are identical in nature if not geography to the evac plans that have been on the boards for atleast 5 decades for storms, quakes, hazmat spills and nuke attacks) you will want some supplies to make the evacuation somewhat more manageable and comfortable.

If I were selling gasmasks and tyvek suits I would PooPoo the bob because you must either buy my gear and be able to survive the holocaust or die.

If I were selling Underground bomb shelters in the hills just off the interstate then I would PooPoo the Gasmasks and tyvek suits because you will either get the news in time and evacuate or die.

These are marketing statements. Truth is Gasmasks, tyvek suits, Big SUV's, and bomb shelters are all part of a continuum of preparedness that will increase your chances of being there when the sun rises over the carnage left behind. Could be that having a gasmask in you desk drawer is exactly what you needed to get to the SUV so you could drive home and pick up the BOB before the Natl guard closes the roads between you house and your bomb shelter. OTOH if you are unwitting victim of Bio attack and then implement a BOB scenario driving several hundred miles (stopping at convience stores along the way) to get to your hideout then you have become the dispersal mechanism needed for the effectiveness of the bio attack. (Bad you!) and you will probably have managed to leave behind the area where the immediate response will be using up all the available supplies that are required to help you survive the immanent collapse of your internal systems. But Hey, you didn't know that the event had already happened because the aerosol in the ductworks is impossible to detect until folks start showing up dead or nearly so at the hospitals.

#19795 - 10/06/03 06:29 PM Re: Government recommends BOBs
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Juval Aviv is a former IDF officer, El AL security consultant and currently with Interfor, a corporate security company. Mr Aviv may disparage other efforts as bandaids,but he is only a larger battle dressing for a world with major hurts.

#19796 - 10/06/03 06:46 PM Re: Government recommends BOBs

Well said!

I believe firmly that the more resilient and tolerant and indepent each individual becomes within the parameters of a given society the more resilient that society becomes. For just one example, If we all know how to live off the grid for a few days / weeks and are prepared to do so then the terror threat to our infrastructure becomes less potent.

With this type of thinking, preparing to supplement / replace infrastructure dependancies is the best form of homeland defense. It won't necessarily reduce the likelyhood of events nor even the damage done to the immediate area of the event but it will mitigate the effect on our society and our way of life for those not in the epicenter of the event. This sort of effect is much more than a bandaid or battle dressing. This effect is the sole of survival for the society! IMHO!

Get a gun, ammo, water, candles, dinty-moore soup in cans -great for you! Go further and become trained as an EMT and an ARES HAM and then provide comms and trauma response to keep the village stable while things are bad. Go even further and join with a church or other community organization and help them put on a pancake breakfast or ham & bean supper. That will teach you how to be an organizer / server / survivor when the masses show up at the shelter. That not only guarantees you one of the best spots at the shelter but puts you first in line at dinner time.

What use is home defense or even homeland defense if it is provided by the constant thud of the tread of Jack-booted Nat'l Guardsmen patroling the street demanding "Papers! let me see your Papers!"? Get involved and help things remain workable and stable and the riots won't have to be as bad (perhaps) I'd keep the SUV packed and parked near the back door tho just in case.

#19797 - 10/06/03 07:36 PM Re: Government recommends BOBs
paramedicpete Offline

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
I have read and reread the article and everyone’s comments. At first, I was put off by the “expert” and his comments, but having read the article once more (and maybe I am giving him more credit then he is due), I think what he is saying (abet poorly) is that having this bag or supplies is not the panacea the average person might think or be led to believe. We would all agree on one thing about assembling these supplies/kits, that it is an important step to get the average person to think ahead and plan for emergency situations. Where I would agree with him is that nothing in the kit will prevent a chemical or biological attack, only allow some type of minimal response. It seems to me that the government does have the responsibility to reduce/minimize the chance of an attack. Pete

#19798 - 10/11/03 10:58 AM Re: Jack-booted Nat'l Guardsmen

"Jack-booted Nat'l Guardsmen" ? Actually they have lace up regular or steel toed boots for the most part. The National Guard responds to disasters, both natural and man made. In certain situations they have been been activated and placed in situations to control looting. Generally when they do this it means they leave thier families for a period of time to serve a greater good.....at least from the perspective of those who believe that service to one's country, whether as a Police
Officer, Fireman, EMT, Emergency Volunteer or even a "Jack-booted Nat'l Guardsmen " is worth while. Even though some of the citizens they serve may not see it that way or appreciate it those who do.

I will also add that, while I may not like the way you choose to characterize the National Guard and those who serve in it, I do believe that you have a right to express yourself as you choose. I think I can safely say that the majority of approximately 500,000 men and women who are "Jack-booted Nat'l Guardsmen" would too.


Edited by Turk (10/11/03 10:59 AM)

#19799 - 10/12/03 03:23 AM Re: Government recommends BOBs
Ade Offline

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 280

I'm drilling this weekend. Thanks for the ping! I have to remember to ask if my new jackboots have come in yet. Hopefully, when I ask the supply sergeant, he won't tell yet again that my jackboots are on back-order.

My old pair were ruined trampling the constitution that I have repeatedly sworn to defend.

On a less bitterly smart-assed note---yeah, the Guard (like anything else) can be/has been misused, and I certainly have my own problems with it, but when the hurricane hits, or the water is rising, or the forest fire is encroaching, or the excrement hits the oscillator bad enough to require it---we'll be there, doing our best to help out. Please try to keep that in mind.

Take care,


Edited by Ade (10/12/03 03:26 AM)

#19800 - 10/12/03 05:36 AM Re: Government recommends BOBs

My neighbor came over after seeing the governments possition and asked my opinion on what he should include in his families emergency supplies. So......we sat down and I shared with him (again) what was in my families BOB and home supplies. He balked big time on procurring protection for himself and his family and I asked him one question. "Who do you think is going to come to your rescue?"

To my knowledge, he still hasn't put anything together, but at least he has a good idea of where to start.

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