I have just tested a Swedish Army Trangia Stove and British Army 24hr ORP Balti Chicken Curry from a 24hr ORP pack. The Curry was pretty good (no Naan Bread though ),well lets say that I've had a lot lot worse from some local Curry house restaurants and the Swedish Trangia worked well in cool and windy conditions unlike some other alcohol stoves I could mention.







So along with the 58 Pattern Sleeping bag and the 100% Wooly pulley what is your favorite cheap and cheerful ex mil surplus survival kit?

Trangia always made/makes top of the line gear..i wish i could get the UK MRE's.i have seen some on the the surplus sites across the pond but they are sort of spendy with postage and all,if they will even sell to the US.for my favorite bit of surplus survival gear,and i do mean survival as it stays in the car over the winter and i don't use it camping,i would say it's that German sleeping bag with the arms.it got a few bad reviews when i posted it here a few years ago but i like it.i have a old jungle hammock but i don't see or use that as a survival item.

I am very fond of a US Army Mountain Cookset, two 2 quart aluminum pots with bails, and a stainless steel fry pan/lid with folding handle. Quite light and useful for backpacking with groups of four to six.

It has a date of 1951. I bought it about 1958 or so, probably for about $2.


It is old enough that, just possibly, Canoedogs might not have one in his collection, but I am not sure I want to bet on it.

May I ask were you bought your ratpack from? I'm interested in getting some for backpacking/off roading

Wow, that looks delicious. (I'm hungry) Trangia for me too. Love 'em.

You can get the very latest British 24hr Rations direct from the manufacturer called Multi-Climate Ration Packs.

http://rations.vesteyfoods.com/ration_packs.asp?ptypeID=4&packID=6

The older style rations can are available here (but these rations will most likely be a 1-2 years older than the MCRs.

http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/shop/a...ent-687979.html

I used to get my 24hr ORPs locally for £5 each but are now not available. I would probably go direct the supplier at Vestey foods as the additional extra cost will get you the newer rations. Many of the older items have been replaced as described here,

http://www.army.mod.uk/news/14369.aspx

So no more biscuit browns, biscuit fruits (which I actually like), chocolate bars, powdered soups and Oat Biscuit etc which are more adapted to colder weather northern European environments.

The MCRs do look quite good though.

For me, the USGI poncho.

Posted a long piece covering the issue but it got lost in the ETS machine. After spending time and effort once I'm not going to recreate it.

French mess tin. Right size and shape to put a decent "belt order" kit, tough, and reasonably light.

EDIT
And 550 cord and P-38 can openers. Never leave home without either one.

Canoedogs, I had one of those and didnt care for it at all-I found it too drafty, and the middle slit opened up on me too much (I toss & turn a lot).

I dont know if I have a FAVORITE piece of issue gear, but, I do use a lot of it in my jeep. I have the current issue military sleep system (almost time to take the winter black bag out, yay!), issue poncho, and the Swedish Trangia. All 3 have stood the test of time for me-two were kept when I left the military, so they have been field test, extensively.

KA_BAR!!! I have owned a real KABAR (some are made in china) and LOVE it! Dont know if its standard issue but Im thinking about getting a USAF pilots knife, Any past or present experiences?

It's got to be my poncho liner that I bought literally the day before Clothing Sales tripled the price on them. I paid about $6 on Sep 30. On 1 Oct the price went up to $18 - yeah, that was many moons ago. Of course I bought several - sold some for a slight profit - kept the rest. I still have and use two. Mine's traveled the world and is still in decent shape.

Sybert, the USAF pilots knives are a bear to sharpen and keep sharp. Good knife for the purpose I guess, but heavy.

I think the USAF was a POS. Stick with Kabar. Add a small Gerber saw or something similar if you need it. Otherwise, the USAF knife is big, clunky, won't hold a decent edge, and has a mediocre sheath (though admittedly the stone pocket is great).

Lessee... GI Poncho, Canteen Cup, LC2 web gear, and BDU.

Can I just say WOOBIE?

If not, the US Army poncho liner is best piece of kit army ever had. My entire family sleeps under them instead of the usual bed blankets. Also the one in the car. We even cut one down for toddler size instead of silk blankies for the tots.

Doan magnesium fire lighter (USAF)'
Fallkniven F1 (Swedish Air Force Aircrew Survival Knife).
SAS survival smock (Arktis).

Geez, I forgot my woobie!!! And, thats something I use ALL the time! Mine was purchased in 1988-when I was stationed at Ft. Lewis. It has gone literally everywhere with me! It currently resides on my couch-I cannot bear to get rid of it.
FYI, Kifaru makes a "woobie" as well-I use one for camping (in warm weather). Its good down to about 40* or so-my original one barely gets the chill out in cool weather, its so used

Boot covers. Water proof, insulated. Called the "infantery's best friend".These have been used for something around 30 years or so by the Norwegian army.

As usual, google translate produce some weird results but you get the picture - or at least "a" nice picture of them Boot covers (fotposer).

Being in the home guard I have a complete "individual equipment" in the attic. Good stuff, but heavy and a bit old fashioned - you're talking pre goretex era here. Exept for the lack of a tent, tarp or bivy bag it is all you need for a comfortable night outdoors. I'd trust that kit with my life - but I have more modern and lightweight and less "tacticool" looking gear that I use. With the exception of the boot covers it all stays in the attic untill I am ordered to put it on.

$800!!!!...well they look like they would do the job of keeping your feet warm..also,i had no idea that Norway had a home guard like the Swiss.

The p38 can opener of course.

HJ

Canteen cup and a pair of mid-90s Canadian military issue wool socks. Those things were like boots in their own right. Super warm, really thick, came upto my knee, had ties to hold them up. There wouldn't fit in my regular boots so I used them as camp slippers. Unfortunately the famly dog chewed them up. I've been on the hunt for another pair ever since.

Looking at my gear, the only thing I actually use nowadays that is a true military surplus type item, is 550 paracord. Everything else is a commercial based item.

With that said, many items owe their lineage to lessons learned through military gear. Some are obvious (like AR-style sporting rifles), while others, (like Nylon), aren't as evident.

A lot of innovations and practices we use today have a military history. Just to name a few, plastic surgery was developed in WWI to treat soldiers who were shot in the face. Sanitary napkins were developed by nurses in the field in WWI. Modern dentistry was first used by American soldiers in WWII.

Jeanette Isabelle

My military kit in Iraq was a water source connected to my body that was always full (I drank out of a camel back that was attached to my vehicle seat) and every signal/commo device I could fit on my vest/body. Every fiber of my being was going to be focused on re-establishing contact with friendly forces. I actually didn’t have very many interesting items. Just PLB, signal mirror, whistle, smoke grenades, pen flares, buzz saw (chemlight with 550 cord attached to swing around for a larger signature) strobe (with IR capability) and a VS-17 panel. I did carry some water purification tabs, but I figured that even if I did find a water source, I wasn’t hanging around long enough to filter it with anything but a bandanna, drop in some tabs and keep moving. There were a lot of other little things I carried, but those stand out as being the most critical. I also tried to always keep a MRE main course in my cargo pocket, but otherwise I don’t think I had any food or food procurement items, just electrolyte mixes.

Not trying to hijack the thread or anything, but I would say that one of the most important items in my kit was a picture of my family, some religious psalms embroidered on a handkerchief and the ranger creed (I’m not a Ranger, but it’s a great creed). I looked to these items daily for inspiration/motivation and I’m sure they would have come in just as handy in a survival situation.

Another interesting item for discussion is the blood chit. Their these documents that are written in several languages that basically say that I’m an American Soldier, circumstances beyond my control have led me to ask you for help and that if you aid me you will be compensated by the US govt. I’m not suggesting that the ETS community is in need of evasion aids, but it just occurred to me that having some basic “this is who I am and I need your help” documentation in a few languages could come in helpful if you were going to be traveling in an area that spoke a language you did not know.

Before WWII, manila climbing rope was state of the art. Nylon rope, developed because of the unavailability of manila during the conflict, superseded natural fibers after the war with startling improvements in strength, utility, and safety.

The U.S. Air Force aircrew helmet bag - two external pockets, two internal pockets and the main compartment.

Two OD wool blankets and a couple of full-sized OD canvas duffel bags

How do they size those boot bags? I like them and would like to get a pair.

I still think my favorite is the good ole fashion triangle bandage. I had one from my dad as a kid as far back as I can remember. Pulls duty as scarf, headband, "do-rag," dust filter, pot holder, bandage compress, tie-down strap, snot rag ...

All the same one! It's amazing how durable it is. It's actually fraying at the edges finally, but that thing has probably been camping with me at least 150 nights and probably close to 1,000 miles.

Yes, I wash it!

I have a few bits which I like, but something not metioned is a FRED. Australian Army Issue. Its like a p31,but much better

It fits very nicely in a wallet too!

Here's a picture incase you don't know:

I liked the John Wayne bars,basically chocolate ultra-whipped till the cocoa butter was dry,with oatmeal added for strength/rigidity,& they were Very Rigid,lol!The concept was so we could have un-melted chocolate bars,They didn't melt & they also floated!The woobie & Poncho combo was the Best invention since the Jeep,IMHO!The steel cleaning rods for the A-1's were a big hit on Bivouac or B-tours!Cosmoline is Still used today, though,I've Never met anyone short of 1st Sgt.,who liked it!The Internet was derived from our Military,that has to be #1!

How well does the FRED work in reality? I thought it stood for F****** Ridiculous Eating Device.


Da Bing

I like using it. Its longer than a p31 so you get more leverage to open cans. Its got a bottle opener, which can also be used for undoing knots, or as a screwdriver etc etc.

The spoon is small, and not very deep, so it isn't good for soup etc, but it can shovel lumps out of a can or shovel stuff into your mouth.

I guess its a better than a wooden stick, but not as good as a real spoon.

There are a few non-Army issue ones about which from my limited experiance are not as tough as the real ones.

US Issue is P38, not P31.

They used to come with C rations. Most of the grunts kept them on a small dummy cord on their LBE, not on dogtag chain. Land on an open P38 one time and you will not keep it on your dogtags.

P38's bigger cousin, P51, seems easier to use. They both fold flat, and are easy to store. If you are not pressed for space, there are more ergonomic options.

Da Bing

Recently bought a large ALICE ruck from Allegheny on E-bay. Very pleased. Also have smaller MOLLE pouches from Cheaper Than Dirt. Most happy with surplus French Ranger boots from CTD that were $30. Also saving to buy a replica M1889 campaign hat- http://www.eureka-arsenal.com/PROD_FRAME.htm
As a veteran, my preference is solidly for MilSurplus gear. Have a fair bit, but always looking to improve.

I just ordered two mil surplus used poncho liners from Allegheny for $9.90 each on ebay. Thats pretty cheap. I'll let you all know what the quality looks like when they arrive.

US Canteen, 5$ Straight from the Military no third party purchase =D. The new ones have the pop top for the gas mask tube which is annoying but at the same time a Cool factor.

Canteen Kit - canteen, stainless cup, stove, insulated pouch(with enough extra room for a few teabags and a pack of instant miso soup), water purification tablets, and you can fit a book of matches in the same pocket.

As for a single piece of gear, i have to go with the MK-VII gasmask bag.





i've been trying to find genuine, issue FREDs for a while, but all i can find are the cheap knock-offs. any way a Yank can get ahold of the real thing?

Any recommendations on the various E-tools (entrenching, not electronic, LOL) available? I'm not crazy about US Mil-issue and looking for a better option.

One of my favorite tools for working in the dirt, especially if finesse is not required, is a Pulaski - a grubbing adze combined with a single bit axe blade.

I have had good results with various versions of the military e-tool, but if you want something a bit fancier, Glock makes a fairly spiffy version.

I have a modified US military shovel. Find one of the old ones with a wooden handle. Remove the stock handle and replace with a full size "as in long handled shovel" one.

This makes a very useful tool. I first saw these on fire lines. Used one for awhile and now have made several. Just make sure the handle is of very high quality wood as you will discover that it is an excellent "pry bar". I have one in my 4x4 and would not travel back country without it.

Nomad

No doubt....
my 40yr old P38, ok I guess since it is part of my normal pocket stuff,
I guess it's not technically PSK. But, it resides comfortably in my key silencer next to the well used and worn mag. fire starter and the other stuff.
DanC
[img:left]http://my.opera.com/Fireman428/albums/showpic.dml?album=6741472&picture=120566242[/img]

Ooops, better picture here,sorry :~(

[img]<a href="http://my.opera.com/Fireman428/albums/showpic.dml?album=810723&picture=117769542"><img src="http://files.myopera.com/Fireman428/albums/810723/Photo07212127.jpg" alt="" /></a>[/img]

DanC... I have one Shelby stamped P38 on my key ring ...from TDY to JSPC, Torii Station, Okinawa in 72...I have to tape the blade shut... I would be very disappointed to lose it

Dan. Is this the picture you intended to show us?



Jeanette Isabelle

If you do an ebay search for "fred Australian Army" you should come up with a few genuine products. Some of those folk will ship internationally. I'm sure there are a few local company's here who sell them them too, but after a quick glance, most don't seem to sell genuine products ! (No affiliation to anyone - by the way)

I was given a Glock folding shovel about 25 years ago. It collects dust in my closet today. They do look spiffy, are compact, have a gadgety saw in the handle, and weigh considerably less than the US/West German metal folding variety. BUT... They are pricy and do not stand up to hard use. Because the pivot point lock is plastic, on hard, dry ground the metal shovel blade will pop out of the detent as you torque it. Or, the handle bends. Yes, they weigh more, but the collapsing US metal shovel (AMES), or the old West German wood handle E-tool - with the shovel and pick - are my choices in the field. Neither have ever let me down. I haven't tried the newer Gerber 'NATO' folding shovel because they street for $40+, and well, I'm cheap. And the 'Spetznaz Fighting Shovel'...? Please.

Never think an E-tool can completely replace a full size shovel. If you have ever tried to dig anything more than a slit latrine or fire pit with one, you know what I mean. It is, at best, a field expedient compromise between size and utility, to make sure that when you, the soldier, need to dig for your life you have something on you to dig with.

That said, I always carry one in my car. You never know.

.....CLIFF
(like, who else?)

As for the E-Tool, I have dug a 6x6x6 pit with one as part of a team, 3x2x4 Foxhole individually, and buried one in a tree trunk deep enough that it was difficult to remove (it will hack roots quite well). Bending the head 90deg and using the hoe/pick function can help alot in gathering force. Granted most of this was done in the relatively soft/sandy soil of Ft. Dix, NJ, nonetheless, I have alot of faith in the E-Tool, and carry one in the car at all times.

The GI Poncho is a great piece of kit and pretty versatile, I normally use mine as a ground sheet more than an actual poncho, but I find it a good piece of kit.

The GI Patrol Cap will hold water, and makes an interesting improvised cup/sink in the field.

The GI Wet Weather Jacket a good piece of kit that emphasized to me the importance of good wet weather gear. I have since replaced it with lighter more breathable civillian equivalants, but the lessons learned were valuable.

Likewise, the GI dry bag is a good liner, unfortunately prone to holes, but made one of my first civilian purchases a Sea-Line Dry bag.

Some thoughts,

C. Rowe

Crowe:

I've dug fighting positions with an e-tool, both hasty and standing with cover, and also with a full shovel off a 6X6. Latter is FAR easier, as I'm sure you know (!). Typically on FTX (Camp Beaurgard in Louisiana or Ft. Polk) the trick was to dig your position where someone else had dug one before and filled it in. But when you had to dig virgin ground in the dry season... my back just started aching from the memory.

I did chop down 2"-3" saplings with my US e-tool, so it did work as an ad-hoc ax. We often used ours as a monopod stool. (Fix the shovel blade (tight!) at 90 degrees, place handle on ground with shaft perpinducular to the same, and place your bottom on the flat of the blade.)

As for my favorite military kit, I use a US miliatry canteen/cup as my water bottle of choice, and I still keep a poncho and liner handy. They are, after the p-38 and 550 cord, the some of the most versitile kit the US military ever developed. I'm still torn between by BW Mess tin and Swedish satinless steel one. And then there's the British mess tins and Pattern 58 water bottle... O, the choices.

.....CLIFF
(like, who else?)

This is of course true. A full size set of tools is far superior (and easier on the back). I'm just saying it is possible. The 6x6x6 pit was dug on virgin soil by a squad over the course of 3 hours, typically two in the pit digging. It sucked, but is possible. I think any quartermaster that has an eye towards efficiency in any FTX would be smart to "procure" full-size picks and shovels to greatly increase the speed of any earthworks.



It works well as an axe. I didn't think about the monopod though, nice tip. The force you can generate with one is pretty frightening, I would take it over a knife as a self defense item.



The US Military Canteen/Cup have alot going for them, the kidney shape is really nice, rides on a belt better, doesn't roll, lip is closer to the ground if you are collecting from streams/puddles, and the nesting cup/pouches are just gravy. I hate the plastic taste they impart on water though, tolerable but unpleasant. Fortunately, Nalgene make an equivalent now which is all that and transparent to boot.

Cheers,

C. Rowe

Crowe:

Should have clarified - I have a Nalgene one now. Love it. Got tired of the GI plastic taste. Even fits a (far sturdier) GI cap and strap.

.....CLIFF
(like, who else?)

I just ordered a Nalgene GI canteen, last week. Should be here any day now. I still use the 2L collapsible canteen when I can. As most of you know the liner has a material that when wet acts as a cooling system.

Guys,

Thanks! I have enough experience with the US E-tool to want to look for a a more viable option. I like the wood-handled West German, but will likely end with the US in the plastic cover with ALICE clips.
I also have the canteen, cover & cup. Priceless, yet cheap even new.
Much of my gear is mil surplus. For weight concerns, I do consider civillian stuff. However, for sheer durability I'll almost alway choose miltary gear.

It has to be the woobie...I've got one in each car and one in the camping box. They have saved the day more times than I care to admit due to my lack of planning

Hey Scorp21, welcome to the forum. Yes the Woobie is probably #1. Myself, DW, DD & DS also sleep with one every night instead of a bed sheet. Had to get different colors/camo so they'd stop fighting over em.

SIDENOTE: last winter my Godfather & I bought the Therm-a-rest Tech Blanket. It's nickname is, "Super Woobie", we both compared notes after some cold shoulder season sleeping and it did magnificent.