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#128530 - 03/27/08 03:45 PM Re: Potassium permanganate and glycerin [Re: Paragon]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
I saw glycerin for sale at Rite-Aid today. It was in a small (maybe 6-8 oz.) and in the first-aid aisle, sold as a "skin protectant."

I would not try to keep any mixture like this in a closed container. Youtube has some clips with the mixture of chlorine and alcohol causing explosions, and at least one is pretty morbid.

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#128544 - 03/27/08 04:56 PM Re: Potassium permanganate and glycerin [Re: Dan_McI]
ducktapeguy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 358
250 ways to start a fire.

Did you mean different ways? grin just kidding. FYI, there are other chemicals that you can use in place of glycerin, I don't remember all of them but I think sugar and anti-freeze were a couple. So if by chance you were stuck in the wilderness and happened to have a bottle of PP, you could theoretically use the antifreeze you have stored in your trunk to start a fire. Of course, that's assuming your cigarette lighter doesn't work and you have no matches or lighter.

I still have a bottle of Potassium Permaganate hidden somewhere. As a practical firestarter for emergencies, I can't really see the need since there are many better ways of doing it. But for entertainment, it sure is fun. Since there's a delayed reaction, a neat trick is to set everything up ahead of time then amaze people by appearing to start a fire just by staring at it.


Attachments
250 ways to start a fire.jpg




Edited by ducktapeguy (03/27/08 05:05 PM)

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#128546 - 03/27/08 05:16 PM Re: Potassium permanganate and glycerin [Re: ducktapeguy]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2846
Loc: La-USA
don't forget about chlorine & any kind of oil,,,,not that I would know anything about this subject matter!!!
_________________________
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The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#128547 - 03/27/08 05:17 PM Re: Potassium permanganate and glycerin [Re: Paragon]
ducktapeguy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 358
Originally Posted By: Paragon

For less than $10.00 you can purchase enough potassium permanganate (16 oz), glycerin (8 fl oz), and poly containers to start literally dozens of fires. For 20 cents worth of chemicals weighing less than an ounce (including the poly containers) you could very easily start a fire in less than half a minute, using damp tinder and kindling, one-handed, in the above described scenario.

Between these two non-toxic chemicals, they can be used for numerous other beneficial purposes including drinking water treatment and deodorization, as a disinfectant, to kill germs and prevent bacterial infections, as a gargle, medicinally to treat oral and sinus infections, dermatitis, canker sores, dry skin, chapped lips, athlete's foot, wound cleansing, and as an antidote for phosphorus poisoning. They can also be used to make soap, as a bleach, a solvent, a thickening agent, a laxative, or even as a food sweetener.


Also for the sake of argument, I would have to ask, with three broken fingers and hypothermia, how would opening two separate bottles and combining the two chemicals together be easier than just flicking a bic lighter? For less than $1 and a fraction of an ounce, I can buy a 4 pack of butane lighters capable of starting thousands, if not tens of thousands of fires. Not trying to be argumentative, but you can always come up with a hypothetical situation where this specific method might be the best one, but you gotta ask yourself, how realistic is it? I suppose if I were stranded in the wilderness, with a severe case of athlete's foot, chapped lips and constipation, had nothing but bland, unsweetened food and suffering from a minor case of phosphrous poisoning and body odor, then I'd be grateful to have these chemicals. But then I'd have to ask myself, would i rather start a fire or take care of my athlete's foot?

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#128565 - 03/27/08 08:44 PM Re: Potassium permanganate and glycerin [Re: ducktapeguy]
Paragon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 231
Loc: Greensboro, NC
Originally Posted By: ducktapeguy
Also for the sake of argument, I would have to ask, with three broken fingers and hypothermia, how would opening two separate bottles and combining the two chemicals together be easier than just flicking a bic lighter?

Assuming that you had actually packed in dry tinder, it wouldn't be, and thus the mini Bic option is listed first on the list.

The poly containers that I use are less than two inches in length, so with the base resting in the palm of one's hand, the cap is very easily removed with the thumb and index finger.

Quote:
Not trying to be argumentative, but you can always come up with a hypothetical situation where this specific method might be the best one, but you gotta ask yourself, how realistic is it?

I could have just as easily described a scenario where it was 76 degrees, 20% relative humidity, clear skies with bright sunshine, calm winds, and you had a quart of charcoal fluid and a Bic multi-position barbecue lighter but that would be called a picnic, not a wilderness survival scenario.

I'm sure that we could come up with thousands of different scenarios, but asking how realistic any of them are seems like a moot point to me. The objective of this forum is to prepare ourselves for any situation we might find ourselves in, isn't it?

One could just as easily ask how many of the 3,300+ currently registered members on this board have ever been, or will likely ever be, in a legitimate life-or-death survival scenario. Of those rare occurrences, what are the odds of us actually having half the necessary gear that we all choose to spend money on?

If you want to discuss realism, perhaps you could explain to me what realistic scenario is actually going to befall all of us and send us prancing into the woods with our BoB's strapped on our backs for 72 hours, only to return home three days later when everything is back to normal.

I can't speak for you, but I don't spend the thousands of dollars that I do on all the latest gear because I think I will need it to save my life in the near future, but rather I simply think of it as a somewhat practical hobby, and enjoy the peace of mind that comes with knowing that in the 6.022 E-6 chance I'll ever need any of it, I'll have it and know how to use it.

Realistically, the two primary things that will kill most people in the wilderness are hypothermia and dehydration, so these threats obviously place a premium on fire building skills for warmth and sustainable water purification. As such, I place a larger degree of importance on this skill than I do any other. The items I choose to carry, and the level of redundancy, also reflect this fact.

I chose to list some of the other uses of these chemicals to illustrate just how multi-purpose they are. I would venture to guess that very few of us would ever consider going into the wilderness for an extended period of time without a sharp knife, a multi-tool, a hank of paracord, and a bandana (among other items). The fact that these items have multiple uses make them virtually indispensible to us.

I'm confident that I could be thrown into the woods with nothing but a bathing suit on and still fashion a bow drill by weaving grass or vines for the bow and carving the drill, socket, and fireboard from a sharp stone, but that doesn't mean it will be my first choice given other options.

My EDC includes a mini Bic and a firesteel with Tinder-Quik. And understand when I say my EDC, I mean EDC -- if I'm outside the house I have these items with me in my pockets. My vehicle and wilderness kits have numerous other firemaking items, again, because I place a high degree of redundancy on this important skill.

The entire point of my original post is that I can think of very few ways in which one could start a fire successfully given the worst of conditions (i.e. wet tinder, darkness, wind, reduced mobility/dexterity, etc.). Even a child that doesn't yet know how to strike a match or flick a Bic could pour some glycerin on a small mound of potassium permanganate and have a sustained 2000°F flame burning within a few seconds.

Jim
_________________________
My EDC and FAK


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#128716 - 03/29/08 08:57 PM Re: Potassium permanganate and glycerin [Re: ]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: Troglodyte007
Is the waste product of the combustion safe?
The unused potassium permanganate itself is fairly poisonous, and you should keep it away from fish.

Quite a few of its applications are based on this. It can be used as water purification, antiseptic and disinfectant depending on concentration. You can use it as a dye to attract attention, but I wouldn't do that casually because of the possible danger to wildlife.
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Quality is addictive.

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#128719 - 03/29/08 09:40 PM Re: Potassium permanganate and glycerin [Re: Brangdon]
climberslacker Offline
Youth of the Nation
Addict

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 603
hey...thats an idea if you are in a reletivly small pond and theres fish swimming in it you could dump in the potassium parmangenate and hay plenty of food?? here is a list of all of the ways I have in my pack to light a fire

1 frensel lens...easy on a sunny day (5)
2 bic lighter (1)
3 strike anywere matches AND lifeboat matches (2)
4 magnesium fire starting block(6)
5 ferrocerium rod(fire steel) (3)
6 fire piston (4)
7 flint and steel(7)
8 fire plow(don;t bring it but can make one(9)
9 potassium permengenate and glycerin(8)


Tinder

Ranger rubber bands
charcloth
jute twine (tons of it)
manilla rope (for the nest)
petrolium jelly coated cotton balls
maya wood


all of this is carried in my kit (usually) and im only 13... I keep a bag that can be put on my belt with all of this in it... the bag can actually be burned also. I am allowed to practice my fire skills in my garage with the door open and on the concrete so I feel like I can use all of these things well. If I had to start a fire and I could choose one of the above things from each list I would probably choose my fire steel( I love that thing) and just twine (a whole roll of it could start thousands of fires (i usually use just 1-3 inches of it per fire..)




Edited by climberslacker (03/29/08 09:55 PM)
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#128725 - 03/29/08 10:41 PM Re: Potassium permanganate and glycerin [Re: climberslacker]
JAMAR Offline
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 15
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
right on bro, thats impressive!
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Cub scout, Boy Scout, Explorer and 7 yr Army Vet.

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#196382 - 02/22/10 09:02 PM Re: Potassium permanganate and glycerin [Re: JAMAR]
BorkBorkBork Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 70
Loc: Sweden
On the same note, and something that annoys me quite a bit actually...

Can anyone please point me to a good video showing someone actually making fire in pouring rain? I always seem to stumble on the "make fire during nice weather" videos.


Try making fire outdoors in the rain forest during the rainy season
I have and it is not easy. You really need some good dry kindling and sometimes that is not even enough.
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#196395 - 02/22/10 11:57 PM Re: Potassium permanganate and glycerin [Re: BorkBorkBork]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
Can anyone please point me to a good video showing someone actually making fire in pouring rain? I always seem to stumble on the "make fire during nice weather" videos.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB6I9jO_lg4

Eddie Stone shows the Potassium Permanganate and glycerin fire lighting trick at the end of this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU1VDzqo8T0

I prefer a small tube of Halfords bicycle Tyre Rubber Solution to start a fire (a reliable way to get butyl rubber tubing to catch from a single spark)

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