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#193942 - 01/19/10 11:58 PM Re: Question for the mods [Re: TeacherRO]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Just a suggestion, TeacherRO, but I think it would be helpful if the subject were changed to something more descriptive, now that people have been responding to the intended topic. Can it still be modified at this time?

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#193950 - 01/20/10 01:36 AM Lessons from Haiti
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Merging the old thread here.
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#193960 - 01/20/10 02:17 AM Re: Question for the mods: Lessons from Haiti [Re: Art_in_FL]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"... the distribution of supplies is being hampered by a desire to control the situation too much. They are handing out rations very slowly to thin lines of people when they should, IMHO, be taking their clue from feeding chickens instead of running a soup kitchen. We should be shoveling individual foil wrapped water packets and lifeboat biscuits out of the back of helicopters and trucks with feed scoops. The actual form of the relief is not important as long as they come in durable packages and a small number of servings. Single-serving size would be ideal... Find people and spread supplies while moving. No stopping. No demand for anyone to line up."

YES! But the powers in charge seem to be overlooking that answer. It takes too much time to hand things out individually, after inspecting each person to determine if they might be a looter or black marketeer. Have a helicopter carry a plastic-wrapped loaded pallet of water and food, set it down and leave to go get another, and position the next one a ways from the first.

But we don't want to interrupt the situation with common sense.

Sue

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#193962 - 01/20/10 02:20 AM Re: Question for the mods: Lessons from Haiti [Re: Susan]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2200
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: Susan
Have a helicopter carry a plastic-wrapped loaded pallet of water and food, set it down and leave to go get another, and position the next one a ways from the first.

But we don't want to interrupt the situation with common sense.

Sue

You kidding? Open that pallet, have the helo fly about 20 feet up, 10 mph, and just shovel rations and water as you canvas a field or somewhat open area near population-dense locations. Instead of people mobbing a landed helo, or attacking a pallet, they can have a line several dozen yards long to try and get at. Kind of like using a trough instead of a watering hole. Probably a LOT safer for the helo too, rather than try to land.

Of course, then the news would cover some poor local that got wacked in the head with a meal packet cuz he was trying to chase the helicopter or something equally asinine.

(you're not the only cynical one)

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#193964 - 01/20/10 02:31 AM Re: Question for the mods: Lessons from Haiti [Re: Art_in_FL]
sodak Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 410
Originally Posted By: Art_in_FL

First, not everyone, possibly not even a majority of people even in the US, can necessarily afford to set aside the price of a months supplies for the family.

A majority? Really? Am I the only one who finds this ludicrous?


Originally Posted By: Art_in_FL

In my opinion, based on what I see in various reports, the distribution of supplies is being hampered by a desire to control the situation too much. They are handing out rations very slowly to thin lines of people when they should, IMHO, be taking their clue from feeding chickens instead of running a soup kitchen. We should be shoveling individual foil wrapped water packets and lifeboat biscuits out of the back of helicopters and trucks with feed scoops. The actual form of the relief is not important as long as they come in durable packages and a small number of servings. Single-serving size would be ideal.

Find people and spread supplies while moving. No stopping. No demand for anyone to line up. Wash, rinse, repeat until nearly everyone has received something. If the vast majority of people can get a little to eat and enough moisture in them so they aren't in danger of falling down your going to calm everything down considerably.

Take the edge off and then set up the more organized systems with lines and controls.

Easier said than done. Mobilizing huge support takes time, took time after Katrina, taking time now. Only now no one is criticizing the administration like they did back then.

If you want to speed things up, let the military handle it. They can deal with fixing supply lines, airport runways, infrastructure, etc., much quicker than anyone else. That was demonstrated after the Boxing Day tsunami.

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#193969 - 01/20/10 02:55 AM Re: Question for the mods: Lessons from Haiti [Re: sodak]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"If you want to speed things up, let the military handle it."

Do you mean the sightseeing politicians and news media should stay out of the way and stop taking up valuable space (not to mention air)?

Blasphemy!

Sue

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#193973 - 01/20/10 03:06 AM Re: Question for the mods: Lessons from Haiti [Re: Susan]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3110
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Regarding helicopters:
Last I heard, some three million people were affected. I can't imagine how many helicopters would be required to provide survival rations and water to so many. Seems to me it has to come in by truck, like it or not.

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#193974 - 01/20/10 03:07 AM Re: Question for the mods: Lessons from Haiti [Re: dougwalkabout]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Where are the catapults when you really need them?

Did you ever see El Cid?

Sue

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#193987 - 01/20/10 05:20 AM Re: Question for the mods: Lessons from Haiti [Re: Susan]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
MDinana's comment about the helos is right. That is exactly how our troops were doing it. I saw the videos.

To Sodak about Art's comment on supplies stored.
With about 10% unemployment in USA and another 10% on some form of welfare I consider Art's guess to be a fairly good ballpark estimate. It might be ridiculous but I would think the numbers might be worse in some of Americas poorer cities, especially if you consider fuel and water.
I think even if there were supplies held, in a quake like that a lot of them would have been lost under building collapses anyhow.

It seems to me a major lesson about this incident is about the lack of any govt ready or able to respond in Haiti itself, so while I would love to comment on the effects of having a crappy corrupt government before a disaster like this quake happened, the risk of waxing political is to much for me to make such a comment...

So just assume my comment was something radical and I will refrain from saying it.


Edited by scafool (01/20/10 05:43 AM)
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#193988 - 01/20/10 05:25 AM Re: Question for the mods: Lessons from Haiti [Re: Susan]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
Sue ... right on with your thoughts about a major quake in L.A. Even in US authorities have the very best of intentions, a widespread quake (8.0 or better) is likely to cause major devastation. Most citizens would be lucky if they've got 2-3 days food/water. I give it about 72 hours before things start getting pretty ugly. There is NO way that authorities can enforce order with that number of people, or have a ghost of a chance for delivering all the food and water that is needed. It's completely impossible. The number of residents affected could be 20 times the number in Haiti, although I expect the total casualties would be substantially less (unless fires become a major problem).

The prospect is really not pretty.

other Pete


Edited by Pete (01/20/10 05:29 AM)

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