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#190914 - 12/15/09 05:17 PM Re: Fleeing millions equal a disaster to flee? [Re: hikermor]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Thanks for the tip about Reserve Corps - sounds interesting and useful.


Yer welcome. Red Cross isn't alone in pre-soliciting volunteers, I know several cities who actively solicit non-active volunteers to help when disaster strikes by an early sign up. During a disaster you basically want your volunteer services folks concentrating on recruiting from among known volunteers, not training and vetting spontaneous volunteers. Generally if the disaster is big enough and the need dire enough, they'll do whatever they need to.

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#190982 - 12/16/09 02:57 AM Re: Fleeing millions equal a disaster to flee? [Re: NightHiker]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
You on one side saying "sorry, move along" and thousands upon thousands of desperate people on the other. Sure, they will all be polite and reasonable ....

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#191010 - 12/16/09 02:40 PM Re: Fleeing millions equal a disaster to flee? [Re: NightHiker]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC

Unless the refugees/fellow citizens are all from a maximum security prison, most probably won't be acting like savages.

Are we to assume this is a Mad Max scenario?

Is there a history of hurricane evacuees/"refugees" ravaging the east coast?





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#191024 - 12/16/09 04:33 PM Re: Fleeing millions equal a disaster to flee? [Re: NightHiker]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Hmm, let's reverse this notion and consider the perspective. Then we can make some assumptions. If I were forced to evacuate and become a transient, how would I act moving through neighboring communities who are not facing the same threat I was?

Considering I would be travelling well armed, and with limited supplies otherwise, is there a point at which I become desperate? What happens when I run out of fuel and have to consider abandoning my vehicle and most of my equipment and supplies. If I am familiar with the area, what can I get away with without drawing too much attention from the locals or the LEOs in the area? If I had to, what would make the best opportunity for me to re-fuel/re-supply?

Likely I'd want to avoid really public locations, as the number of witnesses/interferences/competition would be impractical. So finding an out of the way target that I can recon for defensive/supply potential makes some sense. Then it would ust be a matter of choosing the right time, and it's as easy as that.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#191025 - 12/16/09 04:39 PM Re: Fleeing millions equal a disaster to flee? [Re: NightHiker]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
This is, of course, a thought experiment and also a way to see if anyone can pass along their experience with this kind of thing in the real world.

Very remote areas with small populations and a commensurately smaller resource base are certainly less likely to find millions of folks showing up. But that does not describe the whole country - much less other countries.

Displaced persons with pressing family and personal needs, even without criminal attitudes, are going to stress resources where they land. Millions of them, with the best and most honest of intentions, could well feel forced by circumstance to do what they must to help their families and selves survive.

I would hope it never happens, but I thought it worthwhile to extend our thinking to consider if, at some point, such a flood of evacuees might themselves become a diaster or danger that we should in turn consider fleeing from them.

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#191027 - 12/16/09 04:53 PM Re: Fleeing millions equal a disaster to flee? [Re: dweste]
JBMat Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 745
Loc: NC
Scenario one: I am at home and the refugees are coming here. I will be polite, help where I can and offer assistance to the polite ones. Try and take something and Mr. Ruger will assist you in leaving my area.

Scenarion two: I am the refugee. I ask politely and offer to pay, say thank you, and don't take any more than what I need. Any assistance I can offer in the way of helping my benefactors is given.

It's all about being polite and not greedy. Expect nothing, be thankful for what you get and take no more than what you need.

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#191028 - 12/16/09 05:04 PM Re: Fleeing millions equal a disaster to flee? [Re: JBMat]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Please. Factor in you are starving, cold, ill, and afraid - perhaps injured. Your babies, kids, and friends are the same. Your significant other is trying to be brave but you can see them suffering. The homeowners are warm, have food, have medications, have warm clothes, have first aid supplies, etcetera, and say no.

At some point you and the millions like you are likely to be overwhelmed by need and your perceived duty to your loved ones, aren't you?


Edited by dweste (12/16/09 05:06 PM)

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#191031 - 12/16/09 05:15 PM Re: Fleeing millions equal a disaster to flee? [Re: JBMat]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC

Living in DC, in these scenarios I suppose I'm as likely to be a "refugee" as anyone in America.

Pretty sure my city friends and I won't resort to pillaging the Virginia, Maryland and West Virginia countryside.

Except perhaps at the local boutique pet store where my dog may be desperate for Wellness Whitefish & Sweet Potato. Based on previous experience near bins of pig ears and cow hooves, she's not above shoplifting.

Reminds me I need to put her comb and shampoo in my bugout bag.

May need her to charm the locals out of some biscuits and gruel.




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#191033 - 12/16/09 05:21 PM Re: Fleeing millions equal a disaster to flee? [Re: Dagny]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Originally Posted By: Dagny
Pretty sure my city friends and I won't resort to pillaging the Virginia, Maryland and West Virginia countryside.


Does this assume some government response will be quick enough and adequate enough to meet your basic needs?

What if no such response? You can die from ... Rule of Threes. You going quietly into that goodnight?

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#191035 - 12/16/09 05:31 PM Re: Fleeing millions equal a disaster to flee? [Re: dweste]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC
Originally Posted By: dweste
Please. Factor in you are starving, cold, ill, and afraid - perhaps injured. Your babies, kids, and friends are the same. Your significant other is trying to be brave but you can see them suffering. The homeowners are warm, have food, have medications, have warm clothes, have first aid supplies, etcetera, and say no.

At some point you and the millions like you are likely to be overwhelmed by need and your perceived duty to your loved ones, aren't you?


So it's cold and presumably then not hurricane season.

Am I and my millions of refugee cohorts on foot?

Having fled what?

The fed-state-local governments, Red Cross, et.al. are just going to stand by while we shuffle up the highway on foot scavenging for dandelions?

I am confident that the American people won't just stand by and watch that nightmare play out with fellow Americans. That is not our nature.

If that's the Mad Maxish scenario and millions are fleeing the Washington-Baltimore corridor, then residents of the little towns in our paths out of here (likely I-66, I-70) should be afraid. Very afraid.

City folk have guns, too. Even in strict gun control jurisdictions.

I, of course, ETS-trained, will have driven my food-laden vehicle as far as it would go on a tank of gas and then will be on a bike, riding with friends on bikes, pulling bike trailers laden with camping gear and food. When that food and all my cash are gone then I'll probably just slit my wrists with my Ritter MK5.




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