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#191247 - 12/18/09 04:41 PM Re: Fleeing millions equal a disaster to flee? [Re: NightHiker]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Originally Posted By: dweste
The potential reason for developing bug-out strategies would seem to be acknowledging your bug-in location might become untenable. If you do not think this can ever be a possibility, then I congratulate you on having an amazing bug-in location and this scenario is indeed irrelevant for you.

n.b a comment on my bug-in location, aka my home: yes, it is my castle, yes it is where I hang my hat, yes it is where I keep emergency supplies - but like my flashlights, its only stuff, if necessary I can abandon it. If necessity demands that 100 people camp out in my living and dining room to escape the wet and cold, VX gas, invading al Qaeda paratroopers, or a teeming alien presence, or 250 people camp in my front or back yards, or my wife and I operate a soup kitchen for the masses from the only working stove in our zip code, I'm fine with that. These inconveniences would be as temporary as they are unlikely.

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#191255 - 12/18/09 05:39 PM Re: Fleeing millions equal a disaster to flee? [Re: dweste]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Yeah, bug-in under duress can only be sustained for just so long before an attrition of supplies, wits, and resolve take hold. Zen would be to realize when staying put is no longer as desirable as packing up and heading out.

My whole premise is to try and ward off the first major wave of immigrants/invaders, and hope that subsequent waves are greatly attenuated. However, if the bubble went up and there was a prolonged lack of authoritative response, then I suspect some form of anarchy would be inevitable.

Basically, it is just to try and hold on until the cavalry comes. There's really no such thing as a perfect defense; only a suitable deterrent.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#191258 - 12/18/09 06:42 PM Re: Fleeing millions equal a disaster to flee? [Re: Dagny]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
DC is presently under an "epic" storm watch. So the local hordes are stripping the store shelves bare as I type this.


I believe 2 feet of snow is predicted for the Washington Area. A great opportunity to practice building a quinzhee and test your sleeping bag/bivi bag out perhaps. wink Are there any hills nearby for a good toboggan run. grin



Give it a few weeks and the right conditions then even building an igloo might be a possibility depending of course if you get the right type of snow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKQ-WyPJq2o

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#191260 - 12/18/09 07:39 PM Re: Fleeing millions equal a disaster to flee? [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1916
Loc: Washington, DC
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
Quote:
DC is presently under an "epic" storm watch. So the local hordes are stripping the store shelves bare as I type this.


I believe 2 feet of snow is predicted for the Washington Area. A great opportunity to practice building a quinzhee and test your sleeping bag/bivi bag out perhaps. wink Are there any hills nearby for a good toboggan run. grin



Give it a few weeks and the right conditions then even building an igloo might be a possibility depending of course if you get the right type of snow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKQ-WyPJq2o


We're going to snowshoe on the Mall. Take lots of pics.

Sounds like a great plan while sitting inside warm and cozy.

:-)

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#191280 - 12/18/09 11:36 PM Re: Fleeing millions equal a disaster to flee? [Re: Dagny]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"Need to look at the insurance policy to see if damage due to refugee hordes is excluded from coverage. That would influence our decision."

Insurance companies would probably lump it under 'Act of God', which isn't covered. As I was reminded by a friend in the business: Insurance companies are in the premium-collecting business, NOT the claim-paying business.

Sue

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#191281 - 12/18/09 11:44 PM Re: Fleeing millions equal a disaster to flee? [Re: dweste]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"The potential reason for developing bug-out strategies would seem to be acknowledging your bug-in location might become untenable."

It is an interesting Catch-22: if the hordes of refugees make your bug-in unlivable, you become a refugee. What is better than a million refugees, two million? As they all move outward, they make everyone else's location untenable, so there is a massive, growing wave of refugees swarming over the countryside like lemmings to the sea? I fail to see this as an improvement.

Like having an underground shelter during a tornado, the best thing to do might be to just make yourself as invisible as possible and wait until it passes.

Sue

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#191315 - 12/19/09 04:24 PM Re: Fleeing millions equal a disaster to flee? [Re: paramedicpete]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1201
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: paramedicpete
I think that unless there is logistical reason such geographic or conditional causes of single point evacuation, most residents will disperse in multiple directions.
Here in Britain it's a bit different. We're a small island. If global warming happens and the sea levels rise, we'll likely lose all our coastal towns and cities, which is a lot of them. London flooded etc. Everyone will move inland. Nowhere is more than 70 miles from the coast - we're that small. So everyone not on the coast is going to have to deal with refugees.

We're all going to have to help - it won't be viable to treat it as "someone else's problem". Probably it'll happen over decades rather than overnight, though.

(I know a lot of Americans are sceptical about global warming, and I'm not meaning to start that debate; just treat it as another "what if" scenario that some of us think isn't totally outlandish.)
_________________________
Quality is addictive.

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#191319 - 12/19/09 05:01 PM Re: Fleeing millions equal a disaster to flee? [Re: Brangdon]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Originally Posted By: Brangdon

(I know a lot of Americans are sceptical about global warming, and I'm not meaning to start that debate; just treat it as another "what if" scenario that some of us think isn't totally outlandish.)


I don't want to start a global warming debate either, to me its mostly just another scenario we're either prepared for or not - but I agree, the US is a bit behind in preparing for climate change. I recently ran across this article which at least indicates that emergency management folks are starting to consider the ramifications of climate change - http://homelandsecuritynewswire.com/rise-sea-levels-threatens-california-ports-infrastructure?page=0,0. (If the URL doesn't resolve for you just connect to the homelandsecurity.com website and search for the Dec 15 article "Rise in sea levels threatens California ports, infrastructure.")

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#193760 - 01/17/10 10:35 PM Re: Fleeing millions equal a disaster to flee? [Re: Lono]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
What would you re-evaluate if near you there was something like Haiti's tragic fact pattern?


Edited by dweste (01/17/10 10:36 PM)

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#193790 - 01/18/10 02:00 PM Re: Fleeing millions equal a disaster to flee? [Re: dweste]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
My arms supply.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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