Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 3 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#178345 - 08/01/09 12:14 PM Re: Pocket Survival Pak PLUS Announced [Re: urbansurvivalist]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1201
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: urbansurvivalist
Alkaline batteries, and a light with such short run times, seem like a poor choice for a survival light.
Really? There's always a trade-off between runtime, size and price. This torch looks reasonable for the given role to me.

Just so we're on the same page, the article says: "Even after 48 hours we found that there is still enough light so that with fully dark adapted eyes, I could perform survival chores and find my way around, though the light by this time was certainly not bright, it was adequate. This rundown curve is what you get when running continuously. If used intermittently, in shorter bursts, as is typically the case for EDC use and even in an emergency in many cases, the alkaline batteries will recover significantly between uses and will provide more illumination during use and last longer. As an extreme example, after a 10-hour rundown and a 20 minute rest, they output approximately 75% of initial illumination for five minutes before resuming more or less where they left off."

What kind of run-times were you looking for?
_________________________
Quality is addictive.

Top
#178348 - 08/01/09 03:26 PM Re: Pocket Survival Pak PLUS Announced [Re: Doug_Ritter]
boatman Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 424
Loc: Michigan
people need to realize that any PSK is a back up(compromise) to dedicated gear.There is nothing that is perfect.If people are useing this as their primarry gear,they need to rethink things.For the size and weight and cost are the items in the PSP Plus suited for the purpose?YES!

BOATMAN
John

Top
#178352 - 08/01/09 05:55 PM Re: Pocket Survival Pak PLUS Announced [Re: urbansurvivalist]
timo Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 39
"I know the fatal flaw of the Photon lights is the lack of a lockout funtion, and its a shame that Doug couldn't work out special version with this feature. But even with that drawback, I'd rather have a photon with a couple extra CR2016s. They take up almost no space or weight, and the extra batteries greatly mitigate the problem of accidental activation"

I agree that the Photon is a better choice and I wouldn't even consider the Photon's lack of a lockout function "fatal". But I have pulled my Photon Freedom out of my pocket two or three times to find it on.
It is a concern but this has only happened while jangling in my pocket on a keychain every single day over the course of many years. Even with these instances battery life has been acceptable even factoring in the possiblity that it may get turned on THEN off in my pocket without me knowing.

Doug provided a partial solution to this very issue by illustrating how the Photon can be mounted in the clip upside down to eliminate this possibilty.

If you deep store it upside down in the clip, lockout is a non-issue.
But this is beside the point. You shouldn't consider your Photon your primary light. It's a backup. And a very good backup at that.

As mentioned, extra CR batteries take up almost no space or weight. Also, CR batteries are Lithium which should offer extened shelf life compared to alkalines.

It is a little strange for yet another light(and battery type) to pop up in this product line considering Doug's advice to standardize battery types as much as possible to provide cross-compatabilty with other electronic items in your total preparedness kits.

Worst case scenario: CR lithium batteries are the second most abundant type, after alkaline AAs, to easily find at the drug store (if you had to) due to their widespread use in car key fobs.

But I buy my CR's in bulk from Mouser or Digikey and we're talking $ .80 a piece for known quality, Panasonic. Mouser and Digikey don't offer crap, no-name batteries.



Top
#178371 - 08/01/09 11:55 PM Re: Pocket Survival Pak PLUS Announced [Re: timo]
urbansurvivalist Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/05
Posts: 127
Loc: Asheville, NC
Brangdon, this is the line that really bothered me about the runtime: "There is a fairly steep drop-off in brightness during the first hour until it is producing at about 40% brightness. From there you can expect a slower drop-off of about 10%/hour". 40% loss in the first hour is pretty bad, and is unavoidable when using alkaline batteries for a high-draw, unregulated light.

Aside from the battery and runtime issues I think the light is well designed, but those are huge drawbacks to me. The short shelf life and poor cold weather performance are also a big problem, especially for the masses who are unlikely to bother changeing the batteries on a regular basis. If that light ran on lithium batteries, I think it would be a great choice.

Tino, I had forgotton about storing the photon upside down in the clip, that's a great idea and I appreciate the reminder.
I never used to have to problem with accidental activation, but lately I've been needing to carry it in a pocket, under a jumpsuit, or on a side beltloop, all places where it's more likely to get turned on and where I may not notice it until hours later. I've burned through full batteries several times this way.

Photons aren't very expensive, less than $15 online(and even less wholesale), so I don't think that should prevent it's inclusion in the PSP+.

Chances are most of us on this board would never be caught with only a pocket survival kit, but the whole idea is that if all you have is PSK, and nothing else, then that kit alone will help you survive. It is on this basis that I judge survival kits. While I understand the need for compromise, I think its a mistake to justify poor equipment because "I'll probably have my other gear with me".

Top
#178389 - 08/02/09 02:56 AM Re: Pocket Survival Pak PLUS Announced [Re: Doug_Ritter]
m9key Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 143
Loc: florida
enjoy your psp+++++++++++++++ live with it die with out it..........

Top
#178401 - 08/02/09 09:38 AM Re: Pocket Survival Pak PLUS Announced [Re: m9key]
TheSock Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England
Well at least we get a proper water storage option. The previous one; some foil which develops holes in storage and relies on you starting a fire then drinking and carrying it in a bendy bit of foil, was meant as a joke right?
I never even noticed the new light doesn't use lithium batteries. I assumed it would. Can you get them for it?
The photon turns on accidently and shouldn't be used as a primary light? How come no one mentioned this before?
And we still have the compass with no lanyard ring.
The Sock
_________________________
The world is in haste and nears its end Wulfstan II Archbishop of York 1014.

Top
#178404 - 08/02/09 12:44 PM Re: Pocket Survival Pak PLUS Announced [Re: urbansurvivalist]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1201
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: urbansurvivalist
Brangdon, this is the line that really bothered me about the runtime: "There is a fairly steep drop-off in brightness during the first hour until it is producing at about 40% brightness. From there you can expect a slower drop-off of about 10%/hour". 40% loss in the first hour is pretty bad, and is unavoidable when using alkaline batteries for a high-draw, unregulated light.
True, but I don't think the Photon Freedom is any better. According to the graphs on CPF, it drops to 40% after only half an hour. So new light is better in this respect.

Would it help to think of it as a 5 lumen light with a longish runtime rather than a 10 lumen light with a short runtime? I suppose I'm concerned that people might have unrealistic expectations, and might turn down a better light because Doug has been unusually upfront about its limitations.

Quote:
The short shelf life and poor cold weather performance are also a big problem, especially for the masses who are unlikely to bother changeing the batteries on a regular basis.
Sure; I was just interested in the runtime issue.


Edited by Brangdon (08/02/09 12:52 PM)
_________________________
Quality is addictive.

Top
#178408 - 08/02/09 01:50 PM Re: Pocket Survival Pak PLUS Announced [Re: Brangdon]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

The Pico Lite may perform better if the LR41 Alkaline cells were replace with the Silver Oxide versions i.e. the 392 silver oxide watch battery cell, giving a flatter discharge curve and higher capacity (45 mAhrs compared to 30 mAhrs, i.e. 50% improvement in capacity) and much better extended temperature use and better storage lifetime. A set of 4 392s would cost around $3.

As always there is a compromise between the size of the flashlight and its performance. The Pico Lite is half the size of the smallest AAA flashlight available, but its performance will be less than half that of the AAA flashlight, but that it just the nature of scaling down the size of the flashlight. Once you decide to make a flashlight smaller than a AAA cell flashlight, there are no easy choices to be made with regard to the battery type, chemistry etc due to limitations on the cells availability, capacity, voltage etc.






Top
#178438 - 08/02/09 07:36 PM Re: Pocket Survival Pak PLUS Announced [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
GradyT34 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 118
Re: Flashlight

Now that battery life is approaching perpetuity with the new LED flashlight technologies, in my view the Aeon by Muyshondt ( http://muyshondt.net/aeon.shtml ) would be the state of the art flashlight by which all other survival pack flashlight choices could be measured. 40 hours run time on low, fully regulated and if physically threatened, its blindingly good at letting you have your way with multiple perpetrators with 0 training and w/o fear of being sued. If it stays on your key chain or otherwise lives in your pocket, there's not much if any need for redundancy.

Grady

PS - the micro holes in the HD aluminum foil issue still does not seem to have been settled. Has anyone found a brand of HD aluminum foil that would dependably hold water in a survival situation ??

Top
#178442 - 08/02/09 08:44 PM Re: Pocket Survival Pak PLUS Announced [Re: GradyT34]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1916
Loc: Washington, DC
Doug's e-PICO light is the first light I've ever had on my keychain that I can be confident won't accidentally be turned on and burn up the batteries so that it's dead when I need it someday. That was the most important consideration for me. And the e-PICO light on my dog-walking lanyard (with house key) is so tiny that I don't even notice it. That was the other most important consideration, for me.

I'm surprised it only costs $12.

Since I always have a house key with me when I'm out of the house, thanks to Doug's e-PICO I'm now 100% certain in an emergency to have a light that's extremely likely to function. And I'll have 15 hours or so light available.

That should get me out of an elevator or any other likely urban blackout scenario. That's why I'm so delighted with the e-PICO.

That said, I'm interested in whether the lithium battery mentioned would be fine with the e-PICO. Longer shelf-life is nice.

I have so many flashlights and headlamps in my home and car and at least two LEDs in my backpack when hiking that I don't have to be totally reliant on any of them.

None of those would be comfortable on a lanyard.

{my other favorite emergency light is the Petzl e+lite headlamp with lithium wafer battery]


Attachments
Picture 3891.jpg




Edited by Dagny (08/02/09 10:39 PM)

Top
Page 3 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, cliff, Hikin_Jim 
November
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
Who's Online
0 registered (), 247 Guests and 17 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Acropolis50, SimonBlack88, KnifePark, Sank, AppalachianGirl
5299 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Advice on small, "realistic" car emergency kit
by chaosmagnet
02:08 AM
To Those Who Have Lived the 1980s
by Jeanette_Isabelle
11:59 PM
20 x Energizer Ultimate L91 AA @ Costco $13.99
by Phaedrus
09:22 PM
Choose One World To Live In
by Jeanette_Isabelle
02:34 PM
Tucked Bowline Tutorial - lanyard, zipper pull, et
by TonyE
11/18/19 11:25 PM
Ashley's Bend (a.k.a. ABOK 1452) tutorial
by Phaedrus
11/18/19 05:22 AM
A little humor for all those SAR volunteers
by clearwater
11/18/19 04:23 AM
Survival in the snow -- At a Terrible Cost
by Phaedrus
11/18/19 01:06 AM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.