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#1968 - 10/10/01 12:47 PM Re: mylar baloons
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for the great mylar baloon test results, JT. Sounds like there is some potential there. I can't believe how much water they held. Must be pretty strong stuff.<br><br>>>Drinking dried paint off the spout of my emergency water bottle doesn't seem like a particularly wise idea<<<br><br>I'd have to agree with that. Maybe these mylar baloons come in some clear varieties?<br><br>

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#1969 - 10/10/01 01:01 PM Re: Oven bag and zip lock test
Anonymous
Unregistered


Destructive testing- oven bag… just a follow-up;<br><br>I’ve continued playing with these things. As I noted in a previous post, there was some trouble keeping the top closed for this sort of abuse- the provided cinch strap was useless, and knots tended to slip. I didn’t try a twist-tie.<br><br>After several more drops from 3-4 feet the knot slipped again, and had to be re-tied again. This time I reduced the amount of water (I forgot to measure, but I’m guessing it was well over a liter, maybe a liter and a half) and made the knot very tight.<br><br>Several more drops later I was getting bored and doing spinning tosses into the tub, and it finally failed. Interestingly, the bottom seam sprung a small leak on the same toss that caused a 4 inch diameter bulge in the material, protruding about a half-inch. This would seem to mean that the seam is approximately as strong as the material- no point in it being much stronger.<br><br>Note that neither failure was catastrophic- the pinhole leak could be stopped temporarily simply by setting the bag with that part topmost (hard to describe but true), and the bulge was not a rupture.<br><br>After the pinhole leak appeared I deliberately punctured the bag with a forefinger. It was a bit harder than I thought, and the oven bag material stretched more than I thought it would, but puncture resistance is surely the weak point of any of these solutions- anything truly sharp would have ended it instantly.<br><br>Conclusions- it’s a lot more durable than I thought. I’m guessing that the “burst strength” of either the oven bags or zip-lock freezer bags is more than sufficient- in the “real world” dropping the bag would more than likely result in a puncture from a twig or sharp pebble long before the bag actually reached bursting strength. Using these for water purification in camp seems very practical, and if reasonably protected from anything sharp, I think you could backpack it cross-country.<br><br>All in all, for the very flat, compact package, I’m pretty impressed with these oven bags for the smallest kits, and they sure cost a whole lot less than the military survival water bags. I'm seriously thinking of stashing one in my wallet.<br><br><br>

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#1970 - 10/10/01 01:14 PM zip lock test
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>If it is handy sometime, I’d appreciate knowing<<<br><br>The box is labeled "Glad Zipper Storage bags" and it also said "double lock seal" and "new thicker bag". It is the 1-gallon size. I assumed it was a freezer bag because it was thick, but the box didn't say "freezer" on it. It was similar to other freezer bags I have handled (who knows, probably the identical product with different labeling).<br><br>>>Has anyone tried any of the new bags with a slider? <<<br>I haven't tested these for possible field use, but I was given one recently when I left my mother's house with some left-over food. I noticed that the slider was in fact designed to seal completely when it reached the fully-closed position. A rather ingenious design, really. I also remember having some trouble with the slider after opening and closing it a number of times. I think it wasn't engaging the zipper or something. Also, the zipper on that bag seemed a bit flimsy. I am not drawn to this design for survival use since the slider adds some bulk and the regular slider-less style is simpler and seems more reliable and robust to me. Also, the added convenience is of minimal importance to me (no real functionality is added by the slider). Maybe the design will improve with time.<br><br>

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#1971 - 10/10/01 01:34 PM bag testing, chemicals?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for new test results on the oven bag. They seem similar to what I observed. The "bulging" you described was concerning me with my bags. I was getting some small bulges from handling (not delicate handling), maybe when a fingertip gripped too firmly. It seems like the stretched area forming the bulge would be thinner and more likely to suffer a puncture. The ziplock we discussed in some other posts didn't have any bulges even after some dropping. But still, for it's size, the oven bag very much impressed me and was quite usable.<br><br>I wonder if there would be any problems caused by introducing an iodine tablet to a water bag. Would the chemical weaken the bag or cause any undesireable chemical reaction with the various plastics of these different bags (oven, ziplock, mylar, condom, platypus, etc)? Normally the tablet sinks to the bottom and takes a while to dissolve. The point where the tablet contacts the container would have a high concentration of iodine for a while. Doug's article on alternate containers for Potable Aqua tablets illustrates how corrosive these tablets can be to many materials.<br><br>If anyone has done any testing like this or has a knowledge of chemistry, please let us know!<br><br>

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#1972 - 10/12/01 01:41 PM Closing bags (was Re: Oven bag and zip lock test)
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've got an idea for closing them. In my freezer, I use 1/4" binder clips, the little black metal ones. Just twist the neck and clamp it down. They way nothing, taking up almost no room, and have a hell of a grip.<br><br>I'll try it tonight and report, but I bet that they will hold as well as the plastic of the bag itself.<br><br>

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#1973 - 10/12/01 05:29 PM Closing bags (was Re: Oven bag and zip lock test)
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>I use 1/4" binder clips, the little black metal ones. Just twist the neck and clamp it down. They way nothing, taking up almost no room, and have a hell of a grip.<<<br><br>Hmm. Sounds like it should work, and pretty conveniently, but while I've used binder clips, I'm having trouble envisioning this size. Is quarter-inch the nominal jaw opening? If so, I don't think I've seen them that small.<br><br>What might be tiny for a day pack or even a fanny pack can seem pretty huge when trying to make space for it in these itsy-bitsy tins. It would probably have to compete with wire/plastic twist-ties, which really are small...<br><br>Just as an experiment I have installed one of the oven bags in my wallet- it made no noticeable difference in thickness (ok, I took some old receipts and business cards out). <br><br>I think it might be possible to develop a creditable "wallet kit".. I'm now carrying a fresnel lens, pen, P-38 can opener, and the oven bag in mine. With the addition of a Spydercard and the idea of substituting a "flint" rod for the pen in the fold, and maybe a Brunton floating-disk compass.. you'd have firestarting, knife, compass, a can opener, striker, firestarting/map reading lens, and water carrying capability all in a wallet... not a bad start. I could even add one of these "featherweight" mirrors that I've cut down to credit card size.. definitely have to get rid of some credit cards, though...<br><br>

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#1974 - 10/13/01 04:17 PM Closing bags (was Re: Oven bag and zip lock test)
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>clips, I'm having trouble envisioning this size. Is quarter-inch the nominal jaw opening?<<<br><br>Yep. I buy them, and 3/16" ones, from my local office supply store in little white boxes that have (IIRC) 25 in them. The 3/8" size is more common, and probably too big. I've seen 1/4" ones in little tubs at Staples.<br><br>Now for the results:<br>The 3/16 grips the tightest, but it is a pain to get them on. So much so, that I couldn't do it with my off-hand and using my strong hand clubwise (I've always figure that if I can't do it with my weak hand while my strong hand busted up, it isn't going to happen in a survival situation).<br><br>The 1/4" didn't have to be wedged on as tightingly, so that is the size that I'm thinking of going with. I used an old bread bag as my initial testing unit, and repeatedly dropped it from about three feet off the ground. Twenty drops showed no leakage from the neck. Bread bags are thinner and less well built at the seems than a roasting bag, so it sounds good to me.<br><br>The only reservations that I have about the test is that the twisted neck was smaller than that of an oven bag, so it may be nessasary to go up to a 3/8", but if I remember to pick some up at the grocery tommorow, I will be trying it out on a more realistic vessel.<br><br><br><br>

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#1975 - 10/14/01 04:43 AM Closing bags (was Re: Oven bag and zip lock test)
Anonymous
Unregistered


Gentlemen, yall take testing to a science. A lot can be learned on this forum. I just tie a overhand knot, fold it over and put a ty-rap on. You can carry a half dozen small ones easily.<br><br>Regards<br>Hunter

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#1976 - 10/14/01 03:48 PM Closing bags (was Re: Oven bag and zip lock test)
Anonymous
Unregistered


Problem with tie wraps is that they don't always close securely enough to prevent leaks, and untieing an overhand knot one-handed, in the dark, while your hands are cold-numbed is hard to impossible to do without loosing water.<br><br>I might put a higher importance on needing to be able to do things one handed and by touch, but I've spent a summer with my main hand in a cast, so I know first hand (pardon the pun) just how hard that can be.

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#1977 - 10/14/01 04:16 PM Re: bag testing, chemicals?
Anonymous
Unregistered


>>I wonder if there would be any problems caused by introducing an iodine tablet to a water bag. Would the chemical weaken the bag or cause any undesireable chemical reaction with the various plastics of these different bags (oven, ziplock, mylar, condom, platypus, etc)? Normally the tablet sinks to the bottom and takes a while to dissolve. The point where the tablet contacts the container would have a high concentration of iodine for a while. Doug's article on alternate containers for Potable Aqua tablets illustrates how corrosive these tablets can be to many materials…. If anyone has done any testing like this or has a knowledge of chemistry, please let us know!<<<br><br>Seems like a valid question, and nobody’s jumped on it. Almost all of my old Austrian polyethylene bottles from the old backpacking days when we routinely used iodine instead of filtering are permanently stained with a reddish tint- may not be detrimental, but it does show that the material is not impervious.<br><br>I’m willing to do the testing if no one beats me to it. Might take awhile to get my ducks in a row- I don’t want to use my current stock of Potable Aqua tablets, but don’t mind buying more- when I get to someplace that sells them. I had concerns about bags freezing outside, but there’s a laundry tub in the basement. I’ll test one or two types of zip-lock bags, the oven bags, and maybe even a condom- though I think I’d better explain that purchase to a certain lady in advance…

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