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#192709 - 01/05/10 08:44 PM Re: Stove Fuel shelf life [Re: hikermor]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
Propane Stove.

And if you want to keep it simple get a propane bbq with a burner on it, or even two burners smile THen you have it hooked up all the time ready to go.

A single burner coleman propane stove is fine to use in the house. My entire stove is and oven is propane, and we've had almost all going at once too.

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#192722 - 01/05/10 10:35 PM Re: Stove Fuel shelf life [Re: hikermor]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Nothing is problem-free. I hear that there are some real dummies out there who said winning the lottery was the worst thing that has ever happened to them. (Of course, you know it wasn't the lottery money that caused the problems...)

Be careful and use some sense with everything, matches, shovels, propane stoves, bathing cats...

Sue

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#192723 - 01/05/10 10:39 PM Re: Stove Fuel shelf life [Re: Todd W]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Agree. Get something like a Coleman one or two burner stove that burns propane. They can run on the 16.4 oz Coleman propane bottles or you can get an adaptor hose and connect to a 20# refillable bottle.
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
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#192725 - 01/05/10 11:48 PM Re: Stove Fuel shelf life [Re: dougwalkabout]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
Others may laugh, but the stove I'd reach for in that situation is my old Coleman single-burner propane stove.
It's hot, quick to light and relight, and so simple that anyone could use it.
The fuel lasts more-or-less forever, as far as I can tell. It's easy to visually inspect the seal to guard against


I think the small bottles propane units are fine for power outage home use. White gas, isopropane, hexamine and alcohol all have a place. But for a simple and reliable home kit it is hard to go wrong with a stock of one pound bottles and a dead simple single-burner Coleman propane stove that sells for $16. A child, with minimum training, could handle refueling and operation.

A single burner stove, $16; single-mantle lantern, $17 ;small catalytic heater, $70; and a dozen one pound bottles of propane amounts to a nice home kit that covers all the bases.

I like the small bottles and a single burner stove precisely because it reinforces the idea that this is an emergency and you need to act accordingly. Make things too convenient and comfortable and people will naturally tend to be more profligate in resource use. One of the reasons I'm against large automatic transfer generators is that they allow a 'business as usual' attitude when strict rationing would be wiser.

The hose and fittings to adapt small propane units to bulk bottles are okay, and they add adaptability, but they don't work on the most compact units because the one-pound bottle is part of their structure and IMO a twenty pound tank is more of a risk and far less easily handled by smaller, weaker people than the smaller bottles.

There are fittings that allow you to refill the one-pound bottles from a bulk tank but using them can violate several seldom enforced laws and can be a slightly risky process. People go that way and have few problems but they are on their own.






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#192737 - 01/06/10 02:54 AM Re: Stove Fuel shelf life [Re: Art_in_FL]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: Art_in_FL


The hose and fittings to adapt small propane units to bulk bottles are okay, and they add adaptability, but they don't work on the most compact units because the one-pound bottle is part of their structure and IMO a twenty pound tank is more of a risk and far less easily handled by smaller, weaker people than the smaller bottles.

There are fittings that allow you to refill the one-pound bottles from a bulk tank but using them can violate several seldom enforced laws and can be a slightly risky process. People go that way and have few problems but they are on their own.



Good point about the single burner, normally supported by the tank. This is not an insurmountable problem. I always planned to support the burner, which is very sturdy, with two cinder blocks (or anything else non-flammable). Or any other suitable structure; not hard to improvise; just make sure there is adequate cooling and ventilation below, and no weight on the hose.

The nice thing about the adapter+20lb tank is that, provided the hose is long enough, you can leave the stove indoors and the "big bomb" outside. That strikes me as an excellent plan.

Regardless of method, I'm sure we all agree that a camp stove used indoors should be a used-under-direct-supervision stove. Always.

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#192744 - 01/06/10 03:45 AM Re: Stove Fuel shelf life [Re: dougwalkabout]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
This is what I'm thinking would work well with a 20# propane bottle.

Coleman Propane Powerpack Perfectflow Stove

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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#192746 - 01/06/10 05:13 AM Re: Stove Fuel shelf life [Re: Russ]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I've seen those as well. Looked good, but nearly the same cost as a 2-burner. What's the logic of that? I don't get it.

Regarding the use of an external bulk tank:

When I tried this with a cheapo Yanes two-burner, using the regulator/adapter I have, I found that it burned way too hot. This was with a 5-lb refillable tank. The pot supports were glowing bright orange. I damped down the tank valve by roughly 50% and the burner valves by a third.

The Colemans can probably take a bit more. But be aware that a bulk tank can supply a lot more pressure than a 1-lb tank and adjust accordingly.

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#192756 - 01/06/10 12:25 PM Re: Stove Fuel shelf life [Re: dougwalkabout]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
IIRC the Coleman PerfectFlow stoves have a pressure regulator so the higher pressure tank should not be an issue.

As for cost, I haven't seen a dual burner Coleman PerfectFlow at $34 USD. That's ~1/2 the price of dual burners in that line and it looks fairly simple (that's a good thing).

Don't know for sure though, all I have here backpacking stoves from MSR and Optimus. I like the looks of this propane set-up for home use though (what I've seen online).
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#192761 - 01/06/10 02:23 PM Re: Stove Fuel shelf life [Re: Russ]
Compugeek Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 392
Loc: San Diego, CA
I'm moving into an 18-unit apartment complex. Everything's electric, so I will no longer have a gas stove I can use if the power is out (as long the gas is still on). I was hoping for something I could use safely indoors.

I'm VERY paranoid about CO poisoning. I've experienced mild poisoning on a couple of occasions (headache level), and a family member committed suicide by CO.

If I open the kitchen window and another window, would that be sufficient? What if I add a small battery operated fan exhausting from the kitchen?

PS: excellent information, all around! Thank you!
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Okey-dokey. What's plan B?

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#192763 - 01/06/10 02:39 PM Re: Stove Fuel shelf life [Re: Compugeek]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
The amount of CO generated by gas stoves during the cooking process is negligible, otherwise most homes equipped with natural gas cook stoves would require some form of ventilation near the source, which they don't. This is not to say you can leave all burners running full tilt 24/7, but people have been using gas to cook with in homes for a long time. Opening the kitchen window alone would be more than sufficient to allow exhaust gases to vent while cooking. A fan would be overkill. A fuel leak would be a bigger concern, and as noted by others, is easy to avoid/mitigate.
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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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