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#192312 - 12/31/09 11:43 PM Re: Thoughts on Compact Rifle for Hunting/Survival? [Re: Pete]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7191
Loc: southern Cal
There are such things as low recoil loads in 12 gauge, including slugs. I have no first hand experience with them, however. Hard to beat the 12 G for versatility.
Geezer in Chief

#192323 - 01/01/10 03:53 AM Re: Thoughts on Compact Rifle for Hunting/Survival [Re: Pete]
duckear Offline

Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 477
Since lever action 30-30s are rather light, I doubt the recoil will much different than a 308.

Sounds like the women need some trigger time. The 308 recoil can be tolerated by most.

Also, think about an AR-15.

#192327 - 01/01/10 05:08 AM Re: Thoughts on Compact Rifle for Hunting/Survival [Re: duckear]
jshannon Offline

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 585
Loc: North Texas

#192328 - 01/01/10 06:30 AM Re: Thoughts on Compact Rifle for Hunting/Survival [Re: jshannon]
Paul810 Offline

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
If I could only have one firearm, it would be a shotgun; probably a 12 gauge pump. Small game, big game, birds in flight....as long as it's within a stones throw distance you will most likely be able to drop it with the correct load from a shotgun. Plus, shotguns are reasonably priced, shotgun ammunition is readily available in many varieties, it's plentiful, and it's comparatively easy to reload.

My second firearm, an AR15 style rifle along with a Spikes Tactical .22lr conversion kit (bolt assembly and magazines). .223 is very easy to shoot, small enough that you can carry a ton, accurate at longer distances than a shotgun, and packs enough punch to take care of just about anything in North America with well placed shots. With the conversion kit one can quickly adapt the rifle to shoot most .22lr ammo with reasonable accuracy for use against small game, or if you just don't need the full power of .223/5.56.

My choices are an attempt to cover the widest variety of situations though. If I knew where I was going and what I was doing in advance, I would probably choose something more tailored to the situation at hand.

Another tool that I think is often overlooked is the bow. Bows are quiet, have no harsh recoil to worry about, and have been used for a long time to hunt game in the Americas. As another upside, your ammunition can often be retrieved or you can make new ones with stuff you find in the wild, in some cases. Personally, for an unknown survival situation, I would probably take a good bow setup over most .22lr rifles.

#192336 - 01/01/10 01:21 PM Re: Thoughts on Compact Rifle for Hunting/Survival [Re: Paul810]
Matthew_L Offline

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 33
Loc: Rabat, Morocco
There are lots of good suggestions in the above posts, though of course some of them contradict the others. For my own two cents I have to agree that a .22 rifle is the true "survival" rifle if you had to have just one.

Personally I prefer Marlins, and I keep an old-style wood-blued Marlin Papoose in its nylon carry case with a couple of extra factory magazines and a couple of boxes of CCI Stinger ammo. Light, discreet, perfect for small-game hunting and nasty enough to give two-legged predators pause.

I would also second the H&R/NEF Handi-Rifles if you need something in a larger caliber. Unfortunately they don't make one in 7.62x39mm as far as know (a case of cheap Russian ammo that gets used fast by and SKS or AK on the range lasts a looong time in single-shot). They do make models in all the calibers mentioned above and many more.

You haven't mentioned any military surplus rifles out there, but there are number that come to mind as perfect inexpensive hunting weapons that are also fine self-defense tools. The Mosin-Nagant carbines come to mind as they are cheap and rugged and surplus and commercial 7.62x54R ammo is easy to find. They are just fine as is (the M44 has an integral bayonet, the M38 and M59 never had them). The carbines are getting harder to find, but the long M91/30 rifles are still plentiful and you or any gunsmith can turn a $100 surplus rifle into a lighter, more accurate sporter.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.



#192340 - 01/01/10 02:11 PM Re: Thoughts on Compact Rifle for Hunting/Survival? [Re: Pete]
Pete Offline

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
Thanks for further replies.

JohnE: I'll take a look at the link for the air guns. I was just looking at pellet guns - mostly out of curiosity. They have come a long way since the old days when I was a kid and people used to shoot plain old BB guns. A .22 pellet moving at 1100-1300 fps is getting pretty lethal for small game. I could have really used one of those things just a few years ago. At that time I had a house with a bit of property - but located in a rural town in CA. The ground squirels got to be a real problem, and tore up the yard. My dog wasn't fast enough to catch them. A nice pellet gun might have really evened the score.

Other responders: I'm leaning towards a lever gun in .30-30 or 44 magnum. Probably about the right muzzle energy and range for the sorts of forested hills we have in CA. And enough stopping power to deal with a rogue animal or a cougar.

About my women folk - yes you guys are right on this forum. They need more trigger time. A Ruger 10/22 is probably a good solution.

Here's a link that I go to when looking at recoil forces / energies for weapons. But some folks here may disagree ... the numbers never tell the whole story.


other Pete

#192348 - 01/01/10 03:22 PM Re: Thoughts on Compact Rifle for Hunting/Survival? [Re: Leo]
MoBOB Offline

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 1219
Loc: here

Welcome newguy!!! It is great to have you around the fire. Do not worry about "disagreeing". You provided some great food for thought and your perspective. You kept it respectful and thoughtful. That is all we ask.

Again, welcome to the Forum and Happy New Year!!!
"Its not a matter of being ready as it is being prepared" -- B. E. J. Taylor

#192350 - 01/01/10 03:54 PM Re: Thoughts on Compact Rifle for Hunting/Survival? [Re: Leo]
7point82 Offline

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: Leo
My advice is to pick a rifle that you like first and then choose from the available caliber options. For instance you won't have all the same caliber options in a lever gun as you would in a bolt gun. You will have fewer options with a pump or semi auto. Single-shots work best with rimmed cartriges. How much you like the rifle leads to how much you shoot it which leads to how well you shoot it, which is more important than caliber (within reason).
I prefer the 30/30 for my "light hunter". This is my first post so I hate to start off by disagreeing with folks but with good ammo and an accurate rifle it is more than a 100 yard gun. I also use a .44 magnum lever gun for deer. To compare the two, there is not much difference in their effect on game out to 150 yards. The 30/30 has the advantage past that. The ammo weighs about the same, but the 30/30 shoots flatter which makes 200 yard shots more do-able. So I consider it a better all-around gun.

I think that's solid advice.

7.62x39 is going to be ballistically similar too and that opens up a lot of semi-autos for those so inclined.

IMO the shotty is going to be hard to beat for putting meat in the pot.

Welcome Leo!
"There is not a man of us who does not at times need a helping hand to be stretched out to him, and then shame upon him who will not stretch out the helping hand to his brother." -Theodore Roosevelt

#192361 - 01/01/10 05:24 PM Re: Thoughts on Compact Rifle for Hunting/Survival? [Re: Pete]
haertig Offline

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2138
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Pete
A .22 pellet moving at 1100-1300 fps is getting pretty lethal for small game.

Very very few airguns, if any, are going to get a .22 pellet to that velocity. Any that might lay claim to that velocity (no matter how bogus that claim may be) would cost you quite a bit more than a .22LR firearm. 600-900fps is more realistic for .22 pellets. .177 pellets can go faster, but they are smaller/lighter than the .22's. And remember that .22 airgun pellets are quite a bit lighter than .22LR rounds. .22LR run around 36-40 grains whereas .22 pellets are more like 8-16 grains.

Still, you can easily take rabbits, squirrels, birds, etc. with an air rifle. You don't need 1100-1300 fps

#192363 - 01/01/10 06:25 PM Re: Thoughts on Compact Rifle for Hunting/Survival? [Re: Pete]
epirider Offline

Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 232
Loc: Wyoming, USA
If I can add my $.02 to this topic...

I own a variety of guns, both long and pistol. I say look at the entire situation and then make a choice.

My shotgun will work great for defensive and close range hunting application. It will bring down an animal the size of a deer if you are close enough.

My 7mm mag will reach out and touch something at 500 yards and touch it hard enough to do critical damage - and I am talking ELK sized.

My AR-15 is a versitile firearm that has been proven in combat situations and can be used as a hunting rifle if things went bad.
I will also put into this catagory my Rugar mini 14. Everything above applies to it, but not as militaristic looking.

My ruger 10-22 is light, rugged and cheap to shoot. It could be used to slow down (or stop) a violent attack but I have used it to hunt many small game animals. With that being said, it could probably be used for non-flying birds (illegal).

My winchester 30-30 is a reliable carbine and is capable of fighting off bad guys (look at old west history) and is a very capable hunting rifle that I have used for intermediate - short range shots.

Now - the question is which one of these would I use in a survival situation? Again I say look at your situation. If society is crumbling down around you I would say all of them. If you are out on a hiking trip in the wilderness and you break your ankle, I would say your .22. If it is somewhere in between those two scenerios, I would say the one you are most comfortable and accurate with.

When it is all said and done, it is a personal choice. Become knowledgeable on numerous guns. Do research, go shooting, go hunting, talk to people - a lot of people. You will have so much information in such a short amount of time it will make your head swim. Then reveiw what you found out and go buy the gun that you want to use. If it turns out you dont like it, sell it and buy a different one (this is not a lifetime commitment). But for God sake these words never rang so true to a posting: To thine own self be true.

and that is my $.02
A government big enough to give you everything you want,
is strong enough to take everything you have.
Thomas Jefferson

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