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#192249 - 12/31/09 04:57 AM Re: Thoughts on Compact Rifle for Hunting/Survival? [Re: Pete]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
For me, "survival rifle" means simple, foolproof, and bulletproof (i.e., "robust"). That rules out a scope, and semi-autos. Magazines are failure-prone too, so a tubular magazine is what I'd want. For robustness, I would look at lever actions and bolt actions. Install a tang sight (peep sight) for better sighting while still maintaining simplicity and robustness.

If you're looking for a .22LR, my choice in lever action would be the Henry H001 and my choice in bolt action would be the Marlin 981T. Both are tube fed, good quality, and inexpensive. .22LR would probably be my "one gun" choice for survival, but my thinking varies on this depending on the day I'm asked. Other good candidates are .22mag and .223 IMHO. If you're truely in survival mode, you'll most likely be hunting rabbits and other small game, so .22LR is fine. If you're surviving in a situation where you need to take larger game, you're in it for the long haul and I'd want more than one rifle to work with. Probably a higher powered springer air rifle, a .22LR, a .223/.243, a .270/.308/.30-06, and a 12ga/20ga. And a bunch of handguns too. And a thousand rounds for each caliber (quadruple that for the .22LR). And a Ford F-150 4x4 to haul all that baggage around in!

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#192266 - 12/31/09 09:43 AM Re: Thoughts on Compact Rifle for Hunting/Survival? [Re: ironraven]
Leo Offline
Stranger

Registered: 12/27/09
Posts: 24
Loc: Colorado
My advice is to pick a rifle that you like first and then choose from the available caliber options. For instance you won't have all the same caliber options in a lever gun as you would in a bolt gun. You will have fewer options with a pump or semi auto. Single-shots work best with rimmed cartriges. How much you like the rifle leads to how much you shoot it which leads to how well you shoot it, which is more important than caliber (within reason).
I prefer the 30/30 for my "light hunter". This is my first post so I hate to start off by disagreeing with folks but with good ammo and an accurate rifle it is more than a 100 yard gun. I also use a .44 magnum lever gun for deer. To compare the two, there is not much difference in their effect on game out to 150 yards. The 30/30 has the advantage past that. The ammo weighs about the same, but the 30/30 shoots flatter which makes 200 yard shots more do-able. So I consider it a better all-around gun.
leo

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#192281 - 12/31/09 03:02 PM Re: Thoughts on Compact Rifle for Hunting/Survival? [Re: ironraven]
GauchoViejo Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 94
Loc: Argentina
Originally Posted By: ironraven


But for survival, I find they are both too heavy for small game. A lever action in .44Mag that can handle the heavier hunting loads, if you've got a a light load in the chamber for bunnies, would probably do you just as well at short (<50m) ranges. Ammo is lighter, but it doesn't work so well if you've got wide open country.

Either that, or back it up with a good .22 pistol or carbine.


I think this last option is the best, hands down, although the .44 has its good points too. You can load it with shot cartridges. In the event of general collapse, a thousand primers, 2 pounds of powder and a bullet mould will keep you in business for a long time

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#192287 - 12/31/09 04:56 PM Re: Thoughts on Compact Rifle for Hunting/Survival? [Re: Pete]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
First, I want to thank everyone for the comments so far. There have been a lot of good thoughts and observations in the responses. I am taking time to think about all of them.

One factor that I should have explained in my original post - is that I am also thinking about keeping the recoil of the rifle down to an acceptable level. That's because I would like the women in my family to be able to use the rifle if necessary (wife and daughters). It would be useful - as a last resort for defense - for them to be able to fire the gun in the direction of a threat. For this reason, a long gun has a better chance at accuracy for an inexperienced user. Likewise, the 243 and .30-30 calibers should be more than effective for the job ... if absolutely necessary. It's true, though, that a 44-magnum lever gun would achieve the same objective. Personally I don't think that the risk from "zombies" is all that high. But in the unlikely event that we encounter an animal problem (a bad dog or a sick cougar), it's important that the women in my family have a defense option. So part of my thinking had to do with keeping recoil at a moderate level.

Some folks mentioned Scout Rifles (see Wikpedia and look up "Scout Rifle"). It's hard to argue against such a good idea ... esp. a weapon that was devised by Jeff Cooper. I've got no problem with the Scouts and if I were the only user I would probably think about one seriously. My only objection there was that it's highly unlikely I will ever need to shoot big game, and the 308 caliber has too much recoil for the women in my family. But I'm not against the Scout Rifle - it's still a very effective design.

I expected that 22 Long Rifles would come up. And the folks here make a good point. In a real survival situation, wouldn't small game be more available? Yes ... it probably would. In addition, I realized that there's another fundamental reason for having a good 22 rifle around. It's what people use to LEARN shooting. So if I want the other members of my family to become comfortable with firearms, starting them with a 22 is a good way to go.

The moral of the story may be ... that there is no one weapon that offers a perfect solution. Hence having a 22 rifle (or pistol that fires 22LR), plus a higher-caliber rifle will greatly expand the options for survival, hunting & personal protection.

Thanks for all the comments so far.

other Pete


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#192288 - 12/31/09 05:07 PM Re: Thoughts on Compact Rifle for Hunting/Survival? [Re: Pete]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Just a thought. In addition to the centerfire caliber of your choice and the 22LR, I keep toying with the idea of a slingshot, mostly for taking small game. Cheap (even in snazzy versions), quiet, and an endless supply of ammunition.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#192293 - 12/31/09 05:52 PM Re: Thoughts on Compact Rifle for Hunting/Survival? [Re: hikermor]
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
If you like slingshots, you gotta check out Joerg's stuff on youtube. Do a search for the slingshot channel, his stuff is amazing.
_________________________
JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The Future/Leonard Cohen


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#192301 - 12/31/09 08:28 PM Re: Thoughts on Compact Rifle for Hunting/Survival? [Re: hikermor]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
Hikermor: I'm experimenting with hunting slingshots this year. And this discussion also reminded me to look at hi-power airguns too. These alternative weapons could be useful esp. for urban survival (small game & birds), where gunshots may not be a good idea.

other Pete

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#192302 - 12/31/09 08:30 PM Re: Thoughts on Compact Rifle for Hunting/Survival? [Re: NightHiker]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
NightHiker: I'll think about what you're saying. Good shotguns are not expensive. I suspect that a 12-gage would be too much for the women in my family, but a 20-gage might be OK.

other Pete

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#192305 - 12/31/09 09:44 PM Re: Thoughts on Compact Rifle for Hunting/Survival? [Re: Pete]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
One size fits all? Get a little smaller firearm than you might want so other folks can use it? Is that a good idea? Do you apply it to your hat, or your knife...or your underwear? Maybe each member of the family should find a firearm that suits them. Perhaps size may matters less than you believe. I know smallish women who choose .30/12 gauge, and largish men who prefer .243/20 gauge. I would not wish to have either group shooting at me with their chosen weapons. Redundancy is highly valued here, and no firearm is absolutely reliable. Having a variety of weapons in a variety of calibers could be more adaptable than having a single family gun. And now that the female hunting market segment is the fastest-growing in the country, so many weapons are available in lovely pastels...

All of the subsistence deer poachers back home hunted with .22 rimfires, and such were used in the slaughterhouse to kill full grown hereford bulls, if you didn't want to use the sledgehammer. It can be a pretty effective cartridge.
_________________________
Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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#192308 - 12/31/09 11:13 PM Re: Thoughts on Compact Rifle for Hunting/Survival? [Re: Pete]
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
other Pete, check out Airguns of Arizona. If they don't have it, you don't need it.


_________________________
JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The Future/Leonard Cohen


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