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#192484 - 01/02/10 11:27 PM Re: Dealing with human waste... starting RIGHT NOW [Re: Skimo]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"The only thing I'm missing is the lumber to make it private."

Just plant some trees close together.

Sue

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#192495 - 01/03/10 01:19 AM Re: Dealing with human waste... starting RIGHT NOW ? [Re: Susan]
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Hi, Susan,

I've lived on a farm with a septic tank, and I live in a town with a sewer system. The septic tank requires no power. Your toilet uses the water in the tank to flush the commode, which moves the waste into the septic tank. With a new tank, it sits there till you fill it with water, then each flush pushes the overflow into your drainage field, which is downhill from the septic tank.

In our town, we have occasional power outages, and our toilets flush as usual. The treatment building uses electrical power, but I've never had the power out long enough to see what happens - either the treatment center has backup power or it's far enough downhill it never filled up. :->

Here's where you lose the use of your toilet: no water. I was on St. Barth when the island ran out of water. You have one flush, and then the tank doesn't fill. We used water from our swimming pool to fill the toilet.

I expect the water mains to break in the San Francisco Bay Area when we have our earthquake. We have those strong plastic bags for trash compactors and hobbit chips for people who keep gerbils and such (I think it's pine sawdust). When the toilet is dry, put the plastic bag in the commode and use it for dry waste as much as possible (take a leak outside somewhere). Sprinkle with sawdust (or cat litter) till full or too stinky. Take outside and bury the bag in a shallow grave where it won't be stepped on. Repeat as necessary.

When services come back, ask our garbage company how they want to handle the waste. If they can't, who does? Ask till we get the answer. With the waste buried, it's not a high priority, but we will press till we get a way to dispose of the waste safely.

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#192499 - 01/03/10 01:47 AM Re: Dealing with human waste... starting RIGHT NOW ? [Re: philip]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Originally Posted By: philip
Hi, Susan,

I've lived on a farm with a septic tank, and I live in a town with a sewer system. The septic tank requires no power. Your toilet uses the water in the tank to flush the commode, which moves the waste into the septic tank. With a new tank, it sits there till you fill it with water, then each flush pushes the overflow into your drainage field, which is downhill from the septic tank.

In our town, we have occasional power outages, and our toilets flush as usual. The treatment building uses electrical power, but I've never had the power out long enough to see what happens - either the treatment center has backup power or it's far enough downhill it never filled up. :->

Here's where you lose the use of your toilet: no water. I was on St. Barth when the island ran out of water. You have one flush, and then the tank doesn't fill. We used water from our swimming pool to fill the toilet.

Q...snip ...Q

When services come back, ask our garbage company how they want to handle the waste. If they can't, who does? Ask till we get the answer. With the waste buried, it's not a high priority, but we will press till we get a way to dispose of the waste safely.


In areas with high water tables, where a conventional septic system won't work, builders may resort to raised beds and a small lift pump. If power goes out the lift pump fails and things start backing up. It's a septic system without the reassuring reliability of a conventional septic system.

As far as I can tell, living in several cities with different systems, major municipal sewage systems flow by gravity as much as is practical but resort to lift stations as needed. These typically have a significant reserve capacity and where they don't they are supposed to have a fuel supply and generator to run the pumps. How long this is designed to operate independently and how long they actually do remains to be seen. In a recent power outage near me a large lift station with redundant generators failed to activate. Sewage backed up and flowed into a stream. Big EPA/DEP fine.

The good news was that even as the lift station backed up people up hill could flush their toilets as long as they had water.

If your going to bury your plastic bag filled with human waste try to remove, or at least break up, the bag.

If your looking for a company to cart off such waste the people you want to talk to are the same people who pump septic tanks. They are set up and certified to handle such things and properly dispose of it all. But they won't come cheap and as long as there is well drained earth available burial is quick and effective.

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#192521 - 01/03/10 04:36 AM Re: Dealing with human waste... starting RIGHT NOW ? [Re: Art_in_FL]
turbo Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 133
Loc: Oregon
Rent an outdoor chemical toilet, i.e. PortaJohn and contract to have it pumped out regularly. Construction sites and major outdoor events use them all the time.

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#192542 - 01/03/10 05:19 PM Re: Dealing with human waste... starting RIGHT NOW ? [Re: turbo]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"Rent an outdoor chemical toilet, i.e. PortaJohn and contract to have it pumped out regularly. Construction sites and major outdoor events use them all the time."

Not in a disaster situation, I'll bet, and maybe not soon after, until things settle down to normal.

On hiring a septic tank service after a disaster: get your neighborhood together and have a single large pickup. And from personal experience, they can empty it from buckets and garbage cans, but not from bags.

Sue

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#192548 - 01/03/10 06:39 PM Re: Dealing with human waste... starting RIGHT NOW ? [Re: Art_in_FL]
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
> If your going to bury your plastic bag filled with human waste try to remove,
> or at least break up, the bag.

No, it stays in the bag till we find proper disposal. It's a temporary burial, not a long term answer. In my area, well-drained earth is hard to come by that we could bury raw sewage on. Finding a sludge pumper is a good idea. The plastic bags will be a problem for them, be we could see what we could work out if all else fails. Thanks for that suggestion.

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#192578 - 01/04/10 03:56 AM Re: Dealing with human waste... starting RIGHT NOW ? [Re: philip]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Philip, I am obviously missing the point of burying it...

Sue

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#192627 - 01/04/10 09:12 PM Re: Dealing with human waste... starting RIGHT NOW ? [Re: Susan]
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Sorry, that's my fault. The point of burying it is to get it out of the way so the bag doesn't leak and contaminate your living area with fecal matter.

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#192630 - 01/04/10 09:33 PM Re: Dealing with human waste... starting RIGHT NOW ? [Re: philip]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Buried plastic (thin types like bags) doesn't work very well for containment unless you have a pure-sand, no-rock soil surrounding it. Regular soil with rocks against plastic is a guaranteed puncture if there is any movement against the rocks or if there is any pressure applied from above.

The perfect example of this is that black plastic that was often (too often) used as weed barriers and then covered with wood chips or rocks. The moment the first person stepped on the topping, the plastic was compromised, a hole was formed, and weeds would find it like a spaniel after a bird.

And animals will dig them up. And when you dig them up, you would probably rupture them in the process.

I would suggest that you store a few plastic garbage cans and load the bags (or empty them) into the garbage cans, put the lids on and weight them down very well.

Just my opinion, of which I have many.... whistle

Sue

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#192639 - 01/05/10 02:04 AM Re: Dealing with human waste... starting RIGHT NOW ? [Re: Susan]
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
> And animals will dig them up.

Sounds like a good way to trap some dogs for dinner.

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