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#192009 - 12/28/09 02:51 PM Re: Dealing with human waste... starting RIGHT NOW [Re: Art_in_FL]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Interesting notion. I've smoked stoagies in the past to mask the scent of death, with good effect, but it is an acquired talent; one the uninitiated would not appreciate.

For disposing of human waste without the support of a sewer/septic system, I find the "Platoon" method to be an effective alternative at any time of the year. The notable caveat is a ready supply of fuel, in this case diesel, in which to run the burn barrel. It is the technologically least sophisticated method of rendering human waste inert and essentially unhazardous. If you had a big enough electrical supply handy you could do the same with that, or any other heat source that will quickly and satisfactorily decompose the waste. Rendering waste through heat decomposition has been around for a long time.

There are also chemical alternatives, such as lye and caustic soda, but not as reliable perhaps.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#192025 - 12/28/09 08:31 PM Re: Dealing with human waste... starting RIGHT NOW [Re: Art_in_FL]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
One thing I noticed in my longest non bathing episode - three weeks at altitude in routinely below zero temps - was that I and my companions all ripened together. Somehow, since it was mutual, it was less offensive, just a fact of life. It helped that we were all able to shower within minutes of each other when it was all over.
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#192055 - 12/29/09 12:53 AM Re: Dealing with human waste... starting RIGHT NOW [Re: benjammin]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"I've smoked stoagies in the past to mask the scent of death, with good effect, but it is an acquired talent; one the uninitiated would not appreciate."

The 'uninitiated' use Vicks to mask the scent of those godawful stoagies! grin

Sue

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#192070 - 12/29/09 04:43 AM Re: Dealing with human waste... starting RIGHT NOW [Re: Susan]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
I hate the smell of Vicks due to the Oklahoma City bombing, and my time spent there...

Cigars do work. The cheaper and more rancid the better.

Save the good ones for after work.
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#192118 - 12/29/09 07:51 PM Re: Dealing with human waste... starting RIGHT NOW [Re: Desperado]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Craig, from downwind, there IS no difference between a good and a bad cigar. smile

Sue

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#192127 - 12/29/09 11:56 PM Re: Dealing with human waste... starting RIGHT NOW [Re: Susan]
JBMat Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 745
Loc: NC
Shades of the Peacekeeping mission in the Sinai. Set up a pee tube in one area. Squatters will get to go in a tub/basin and carefully empty it. Next to it, the privy, with a 55 gal drum cut in half, top and bottom. Add a cable to the half drum to easily pull it out the back of the privy. He who has been "bad" gets the lovely job of "burning". If you have a supply of kerosene, add a few cups, toss in a flaming piece of toilet paper and move back. Have a long stick for stirring handy. Think happy thoughts while doing so.

Yeah, the neighbors will hate you.

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#192342 - 01/01/10 02:27 PM Re: Dealing with human waste... starting RIGHT NOW [Re: JBMat]
ki4buc Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 710
Loc: Augusta, GA
After Susan mentioning that no one thought of composting, I thought I should do a Google search for "florida emergency management human waste", thinking that I should find something quickly. You'll be pleased to know that this discussion is on the top of page 2. I found few if any clear specific instructions on links that were higher in the results!

I'm trying to read the instructions but every single one of them seems to leave out a very important piece of the timeline: where you're urinating or defecating in the instructions! For example, with this PDF:

http://www.orangecountyfl.net/NR/rdonlyr.../AllHazards.pdf

The instructions say:
1. Use 5 gallon buckets lined with heavy-duty plastic garbage bags
2. Add about 1/4 cup of lime or regular unscented liquid chlorine bleach to the bucket as a disinfectant and deodorizer. Keep lids on firmly
3. Keep buckets in a cool dry place
4. DO NOT DISPOSE OF HUMAN WASTE THROUGH YOUR REGULAR TRASH PICKUP! (I understand this one, this is not confusing at all, might want to put "curbside" or "dumpster" in there just to be specific)
5. Clean and disinfect the buckets immediately.

Okay, so I'm confused with these instructions on which steps are for before I defecate/urinate or after. For #1 above, do I need multiple buckets for these instructions? For #2 above, do I put in the disinfectant before before I go? After? both before and after? Does it go in the bag, or in the bucket? or both? When do I replace the bags? Am I keeping bags full of human waste in buckets and then storing with tight lids in a cool dry place, or am I storing the bags in a cool dry place? Or do I store this in a cool dry place while the bag is not yet full? How many 5 gallon buckets will I need if I'm storing full bags in the buckets? When I clean and disinfect the buckets immediately, is this after every time I change a bag (if I'm supposed to), or after the emergency is over?

http://www.pinellascounty.org/EMERGENCY/afterthestorm.htm

This one is not any better. What do I do with the bags????

Where are the instructions for creating a latrine outside? On the first page, they do say for long term emergencies, additional instructions will be given.

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#192385 - 01/01/10 09:27 PM Re: Dealing with human waste... starting RIGHT NOW [Re: ki4buc]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
K14buc:

Government can't do anything simply, can they? Going by those instructions, everyone would have a whole row of buckets filled with anaerobic, putrifying excrement. What happens if you run out of buckets? If you remove the filled bags so you can reuse the buckets, where do you put the full bags? What do you do if they leak? What do you do about animals? You're not supposed to put it into the landfill, but where ARE you supposed to dispose of it? Where do you store it until then?

Everyone is still thinking in terms of three days. That's not good enough.

Here's the basics on how Joseph Jenkins says to do it, I've done it, and it works just fine.

In a nutshell: You get a new (not sun-brittle) standard 5-gallon plastic bucket, a $12 clip-on toilet seat/lid from a camping store, a pile of sawdust (costs about $8/cubic yard here), and you make a compost pile.

Put a few inches of sawdust (or shredded leaves, stove pellets, wood- or paper-based cat litter box materials, or semi-finished compost) in the bottom of the bucket, clip the seat onto it, and use as intended. There is no separating solids, liquids or toilet paper, it all goes together. Cover all solid waste with a scoop of sawdust (unabsorbed urine goes to the bottom anyway) after each deposit. (NOTE: DO NOT use clay-based cat litter.)

Ladies, check the weight every so often, you may not be able to handle it if it gets too full.

Believe it or not, it doesn't smell, AT ALL. I did it all one winter in my bathroom, and there was less odor than with a flush toilet, which did surprise me.

When the bucket gets kind of full, you take it outdoors, make a dip in the center of your compost pile* with a rake or claw tool, add the contents of the bucket, and cover it with whatever carbon-type material you like: straw, hay, weed trimmings, leaves, soil, etc. You DO NOT spread the waste across the top of the compost pile, ONLY in the center. Clean out the bucket with a toilet brush and a little dishwashing, and toss the cleaning water onto the compost pile, too.

The compost pile should be made fairly well animal-proof for obvious reasons. You can make a simple circle of 2x4" welded wire fencing (3' or 4' high x 4-5' across; or you can make it of wooden pallets; or you could make it of concrete blocks.

It needs to be covered, too, against animals, drenching rains, and drying winds. You can use wire mesh or a pallet, both with a tarp tied across the top, or a partial sheet of plywood anchored with concrete bricks.

A reasonably full bucket can be difficult to lift over a 4-ft barrier, so you may want to plan ahead and put some kind of movable or sectional front on it. Offensive though it may be to some, if there is a man and a woman living together, the woman is going to get stuck dumping the bucket probably 8 out of 10 times, so allow for this, as she isn't likely going to be able to lift a heavy bucket over a 4-ft wall.

As the materials compost, the pile will shrink. It can take a family a year to actually fill the container. You do not turn this compost pile. REPEAT: YOU DO NOT TURN THIS COMPOST PILE! If it takes a year to fill, you let it sit for an additional year to completely break down.

Author Jenkins says he has had his compost tested for pathogens and has used it in his vegetable garden. Your conditions may be different from his, and you probably won't be having any tests done, so it would probably be safest to put the finished compost under trees (fruit trees are okay), fruit shrubs and ornamentals. If push comes to shove for food production in a world gone crazy, mix the totally finished compost into the top 6" of soil, as that's where most of the soil microbes live, and they will finish breaking it down into inoffensive humus, a critical plant nutrient.

Please read the book (it contains drawings and photos), even if you don't do anything about it now. If the time comes when you need it, you'll know what to do. Jenkins answers all the questions you will have, and even some you didn't think of.

Like I've said, I've done this. When I finally opened the compost pile (warily, I'll admit), there was absolutely nothing identifiable in it. NOTHING. It was all just dark brown, mealy compost. There was some dry carbon materials around the edges (mostly straw), so I just set that aside to go in the bottom of the next pile.

The one really big advantage to this method is that the waste components never really touch the ground, as they heat up and are broken down before they get there. This way, unlike an in-ground privy, there are no contaminants or waste nitrogen (the main component in urine) going into the water supply.

Try it, it's easier than you think.

* What I am referring to as your compost pile is not complicated, it's basically just a pile of organic debris: weeds, straw, moldy hay, shredded tree debris, leaves, kitchen waste, etc. Totally all weeds is just fine, and don't need to be shredded or anything, just pile them into the 'container'. It should be at least 18-24" tall when you start adding human waste, as you don't want to put it directly on the ground.

Sue

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#192406 - 01/02/10 02:22 AM Re: Dealing with human waste... starting RIGHT NOW [Re: Susan]
Skimo Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/28/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Tinker AFB Oklahoma, USA
Square nose shovel. Check
back yard. Check
Kiddy potty for the little girls. Check
Ability to squat Check

The only thing I'm missing is the lumber to make it private.


Edited by Skimo (01/02/10 02:23 AM)
Edit Reason: check marks show up as code :(
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#192449 - 01/02/10 06:52 PM Re: Dealing with human waste... starting RIGHT NOW [Re: Skimo]
jshannon Offline
Addict

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 647
Loc: North Texas
The garbage can sounds easier. Doubtful that it is illegal since God only knows how many loaded baby diapers are put into garbage cans per day.

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