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#190233 - 12/08/09 03:41 PM Re: Lost but not alone [Re: NightHiker]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1843
Loc: MINNESOTA

now lets morf this over to what we are about here,how would this effect a/your survival situation? would it turn into fear or comfort?--and having read this or other information on the subject could you use this "feeling" like a tool without going nuts like the guy with the basket ball in the castaway movie?--and now that i think about it and the AM coffee is kicking in,is this why some folks take a stuffed toy animal mascot along on solo trips???..this is getting weird---it feels like someones in the house with me------oh..my wife--she has the day off....later guys..got to go----

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#190235 - 12/08/09 03:51 PM Re: Lost but not alone [Re: CANOEDOGS]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
I originally posted thinking there might be a discussion of how to deal mentally and emotionally when you know for sure you are disoriented and lost. Not what to do to get "un-lost" but how to powerfully and contructively deal with that sinking "uh-oh" feeling to enhance your chances of survival.

But the thread will go where it goes and has been pretty entertaining.

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#190236 - 12/08/09 04:16 PM Re: Lost but not alone [Re: dweste]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
As long as Boney M doesn't pop into my head then I know I'll be alright. I would rather have this music pop into my head to get motivated. grin



Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (12/08/09 04:24 PM)

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#190241 - 12/08/09 06:22 PM Re: Lost but not alone [Re: oldsoldier]
Adventureboy Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 51
Loc: Peoria, AZ ,USA
Hey Y'all,
Disclaimer:(I am not trying to put my beliefs off on anyone who doesn't want them care about them or need them) But being a Christian, when in the bush I know I am not alone, I have a savior and friend who is always watching my back. God is always there watching me and I hope he is watching over all y'all too.

(Admin. please delete if inappropriate.)
_________________________
Give what you cannot keep to gain what you cannot lose
Jim Elliot

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#190244 - 12/08/09 07:07 PM Re: Lost but not alone [Re: NightHiker]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Confirmed Pagan here. I have been in the woods for as long as 17 days alone, its a trip. I am a firm believer in the life in all things. And in particular, when I am alone in the woods I sometimes ponder or get the feeling that all my forefathers are there with me - all the relatives, dead and gone, long since dust, who once were but are no more. Are they in a heaven, Christian or otherwise? Who knows. All I know, is when I get in the frame of mind, they are there, with me. And I'll confess, I have from time to time heard their "voices" (thoughts) when I wasn't actually asking them anything, not under stress, not even listening, but more like being taken unawares. The feeling relates to my relatives, not to the infinite billions of non-relatives who have existed, which is what I would expect from some cosmic consciousness, regrettably I seem capable only of the relative kind. And sad to say, I have never heard the voice of God, any God, not even a whisper, or at least not so that I can understand it.

Nothing particularly stressful about being alone in the woods, except the futility of life if you find yourself stuck, but I think its being alone on my own that brings the connection to others on more strongly. Strong enough that I believe in this presence when I'm also at home, among my living family and friends. Maybe its just a comforting belief, to think that my forefathers who has gone before still exist somewhere, and I will also someday exist wherever they may be. My conscience tells me they are all watching me, always, and they may have something to say about what I do with my life when its all over. I have alot of questions for them, and I hope when I ask them they'll understand me. And if instead I meet darkness at death, that's fine, it was a comforting thought for a fair amount of my life to imagine something else. (And if I end up a caterpillar in another life, then hey, the Buddhists were right). also fyi, I don't believe in hell, not for anyone, though I will occasionally wish that someone should burn in hell for what they've done in life.

My cosmology, you're welcome to it...

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#190277 - 12/09/09 02:27 AM Re: Lost but not alone [Re: NightHiker]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
It may depend on what the person fears.

I have friends who don't spend much time outdoors, and they got very nervous when they heard coyotes howling in the distance on a camping trip. The next morning, they said they didn't sleep well because they kept 'hearing things outside the tent' and thought it was coyotes.

Maybe some people would be more afraid of people... you know, the serial killers who stalk campers. ;-)

Me, I'm afraid of bears, garbage can bears in particular. Met 'em, couldn't scare them off, they give me the creeps. To me, sounds are bears. Look outside, it's a raccoon or a squirrel or the wind. But it sounds like a bear to me.

That's why I travel with a dog most of the time. I look at her, she twitches an ear and goes back to sleep, I'm okay. It's that very low growl when *I* don't hear anything that makes my hair stand up. That stalking walk and peering into the darkness...

The personification of our fears...

Sue

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#190283 - 12/09/09 04:10 AM Re: Lost but not alone [Re: Susan]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
I have seen paranoid dogs too.
I think you guys are right about the fears reflecting the culture the people live in.

In the mythology there seems to be a common thread of warning, it does not seem to matter if they say those voices are fairies, leprechauns, mermaids, Rhiannon or the Windigo.
Almost every culture tells their people not to follow the voices they hear into the woods (or onto the rocks for sailors)

The fact that the stories are all similar says that it is a common thing and that indicates it is something normal brains do. Kind of an auditory instead of a visual mirage.

I find it very interesting that cultures where people often spent time with no sound of a human voice around regarded this as normal and developed myths to explain and warn about it.

That tells me it is something to beware of if you are ever in deep isolation.
I know with a visual mirage there is a difference in the quality of the image, and that you can usually tell a mirage from reality once you have seen them.
So how would you tell auditory mirage from real sounds?
I suspect you might have more difficulty locating it, and the sounds might be just a bit to perfect in tone. I am not sure but I really do suspect there would be some traits of the sounds that might help you decide.

Some studies have been done on prisoners in solitary confinement. They showed very strong signs of audio hallucinations, and mostly of the terrifying sort.
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#190291 - 12/09/09 05:31 AM Re: Lost but not alone [Re: scafool]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1843
Loc: MINNESOTA
over at the canoe site--bwca.com-there are also some story's of very positive feelings as the result of being alone,that one with nature stuff that carries back home with you and leads to a more productive happy life..of course for what we are expecting here,lost,cold and hoping the rat stew will last another day i don't see that in the works.

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#190295 - 12/09/09 05:45 AM Re: Lost but not alone [Re: dweste]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1843
Loc: MINNESOTA
dwest--to bring the thread around to that again--lots of people have said they would try and get in touch with whatever it is that they cherish most and use that as a anchor--home,family,religion,but i don't think there is a "package" that would suit everyone.but as this is a survival site we might want to think about that as part of putting together a kit..the knife go's here....what would i do if???...the matches go there...i'll count to 100 very slowly if i get lost..the whistle is a bit large...i could try and recall old friends to calm down..--a mental exercise so when you need it you have it..as we have seen the survival issue is much more complex that the right knife or spark lighter..

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#190297 - 12/09/09 09:57 AM Re: Lost but not alone [Re: CANOEDOGS]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
The "what would I do if" excercise is the point.

I know that I am rarely "lost" but have often had brief periods when my sense of "staying found" has been challenged until I can match what I see in the landscape with what I see on my map. Being ready to accept that "not sure where I am exactly but I know I will figure it out" feeling as part of the ordinary outdoor experience removes much of its potential anxiety.

In the "drum walk" excercise because I was blindfolded I was "lost" and forced to depend on hearing as my only way to navigate. I failed to successfully get to the drum in the time allotted, so I stayed "lost" until rescued and led, still blindfolded, to the drum. Fascinating experience.

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